Replies

1. 
   ram | Aug 12, 2005 10:57pm | #1

   I agree with both points:

   Mandatory registration is a major barrier to new participants. I don't know why they would do this. CYA is a stretch, what liability would there be from passive eyeballs? As someone in the software biz, my guess would be programmer oversight.

   The every-time-opt-out behavior on the sign in page is just plain obnoxious.

   I love the Knots community and sprited discussions, but much more of this kind of thing dramatically reduces the value of the forum.

    

1. 
   nikkiwood | Aug 13, 2005 02:00am | #2

   Does the new registration system preclude someone from signing in as a "guest" -- which used to mean they can read the threads, but could not post?********************************************************
   "I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
   -- Herb Caen (1916-1997)

1. 
   ram | Aug 13, 2005 02:30am | #3

   Very reasonable question nikkiwood. Not the answer, though.

   The new registration system does away with User IDs and uses email address instead. This is a common practice for web applications with a need to authenticate users, often for security and/or liability reasons. It's not all that strong: any old email address would probably be accepted. The registration page requires an actual name -- also weak since I assume a user determined to be anonymous could enter fictitious data.

   The strange thing is, I don't know why Knots (or Prospero) need reliable authentication?

1. 
   nikkiwood | Aug 13, 2005 08:16am | #4

   The Taunton forums do not carry outside advertising; and promotion of their own products is limited and unobtrusive. I assume that at least part of their reasoning behind this new registration system is to build in more opportunity to market their products directly to forum users (through email), which they have never done before. At least I have never received any email promos during my time around here. And yes, I do suspect the liability issue is also in play. Clearly, given the "curtain" they raised some months ago, they are very nervous about the Cafe at Knots and the Tavern at Breaktime. If needs be, they could track down a user, even with a web based email account. It is immaterial (re: tracking you) whether or not you give your real name for registration purposes. They say they won't, but I think it is just a matter of time before they start selling our email addresses to those wishing to promote something to this kind of audience. There's always been speculation around here about what business purpose (or advantage) there is for Taunton in supporting these various forums. So I assume the new registration is part of an effort (undisclosed to us) to somehow better exploit their sponsorship.********************************************************
   "I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
   -- Herb Caen (1916-1997)

1. 
   Ricks503 | Aug 13, 2005 07:36pm | #5

   There's always been speculation around here about what business purpose (or advantage) there is for Taunton in supporting these various forums.

   Lets start that one again, it is fun.

   My feeling is that they have someone monitoring them to see what concerns their customer base has and what issues and projects are being done so they can generate ideas and such for future issues.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

2. 
   nikkiwood | Aug 13, 2005 08:45pm | #6

   I think I have figured out that one of the FWW editors is designated as the overseer at Knots, more formally known as a moderator. So if I'm right, there is at least one person who keeps track of what's going on here; and I would guess other editors look in from time to time. John White (John W) is the only Taunton person I've seen who regularly contributes here, but he's not an editor. There may be some editorial value in sponsoring Knots as a way of monitoring the pulse of the wwing community; but if I were an editor, I'd be pretty cautious in drawing any sweeping conclusions based on a forum that encompasses maybe 100-200 self-selected participants (when my mag had a subscription base of nearly 300,000). And certainly, article ideas can grow from any number of sources. Maybe something suggested here might give an author or editor an idea they otherwise might not have had. But I'm guessing that's pretty rare.I think a lot of traditional publishers like Taunton are investing money in this sort of thing (forums), mainly because they have a vague feeling that it might be important in the future.They just haven't yet figured out how best to exploit the resource. ********************************************************
   "I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
   -- Herb Caen (1916-1997)

3. 
   jericho | Aug 13, 2005 10:22pm | #8

   we're an ad hoc think tank, I think. this is their window to the world, virtual as it may be.

   I wonder what the costs are for maintaining the forums? with the new system they should have a better feel for the traffic, and at some point this would aid in the ad game. just thinking.

   jericho

4. 
   robert1 | Aug 16, 2005 05:27pm | #23

   <<So if I'm right, there is at least one person who keeps track of what's going on here;>>

   Naw... they're just practicing for the Discovery Channel's version of the "Dirtiest Jobs"!!!

   "Stuck in a dead-end job? Daydreaming about a new career? Combing through the classifieds for your next calling? Well, what about these jobs?

   Roadkill Collector: Must be able to work long hours braving oncoming traffic while picking up creatures of various size and breed and in various states of decay. Benefits include working outdoors. Strong stomach a plus."

    http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/dirtyjobs/splash.html

   Sounds about right, at least for the Cafe monitor, eh?

2. 
   mikegagne | Aug 14, 2005 03:46am | #11

   CYA is a stretch, what liability would there be from passive eyeballs?There maybe some issues with products we discuss (offended unmentioned glue companies?)Maybe its the way we talk about tools (Grizzly might put the company mascot onto them?)Could it be he woods we mention (Honduras is miffed at our switch to khaya?)Oh...wait, I got it, the wipe on Poly folks are offended at the rant of a few weeks ago....sheesh, why didnt I think of it a while ago? I guess I will only finish with shoe polish from now on (Sorry Kiwi).

3. 
   forestgirl | Aug 14, 2005 06:46pm | #15

   "The every-time-opt-out behavior on the sign in page is just plain obnoxious."  This isn't happening to me -- sounds like you've missed something along the way.  When I click on my Knots link, I go directly to the "front page" of Knots, no signing in (I originally asked that it remember my password), no "Opting Out" nothing like that.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   ram | Aug 15, 2005 07:07pm | #21

   ForestGirl, that's because at one time you've omitted unchecking the box that says to save your email and password for auto log on (or there could have been a bug -- this software definitely has several). I forgot to uncheck it late last week and now get logged on immediately without the password dialog. I'll be looking for a way to undo the damage (been responsible for enough secure network sofware in my carrer that I just don't want stored passwords, even encrypted in a cookie).

   Cheers, -robert

2. 
   EF | Aug 13, 2005 09:26pm | #7

   I'll miss the guest option, now I can't read on my lunch hour at work with out leaving a trail that proves it was me looking at the site. They don't enforce their rules and it is my lunch time, but I feel better as a "guest" if they ever want to enforce it suddenly.
   Edward

1. 
   Ricks503 | Aug 13, 2005 11:28pm | #9

   I am in the computer industry, and they monitor the connection by the address of the computer making the connection and your system logon, not the id you logon to the taunton site with, so your company knows (if they were to review the logs - usually only done when you hit restricted sites [porn]) if you logon here as GUEST or as EF.  SO you might as well use your regualr logon.   Check the company policy (with HR if you don't have a copy of the regs), most companies allow internet surfing on lunch and break time - again so long as it is not to restricted sites.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

1. 
   nikkiwood | Aug 14, 2005 03:36am | #10

   So, what's your guess on the overall cost for Taunton in underwriting these forums?********************************************************
   "I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
   -- Herb Caen (1916-1997)

1. 
   mikegagne | Aug 14, 2005 03:52am | #12

   My guess is they keep it low or as a side effort to something else they do. The webslaves (there are no webmasters) are the regular Taunton Press employees and this the way they stay in good with the boss....... 8-) aloha, mike

2. 
   EF | Aug 14, 2005 10:55am | #13

   Long story,but someone left ESPN on every 15 sec refresh for four days and all the boss saw was 22,000 hits to one site and is dumb enough to think that means someone was sitting there doing nothing the whole time. So no lunch surfing to anywhere,ever again, for anyone. IF they enforce it, and some people are back at it. I am a big enough critic of my boss that he may some day want to enforce it against me. And at least with "guest" I can say prove it was me. EF are my initials so it is harder to say it wasn't me. And you may think that they only record sites visited, but they can record every key stoke if they want to.
   Edward

1. 
   Ricks503 | Aug 14, 2005 06:33pm | #14

   As I stated the connection is monitored by your computer system id, not what you logon to a site as.  If at work you logon in the morning as JEFF, - that creates a log that computer 123gf345 is JEFF.  when you logon to a site on the internet,  the system logs that computer 123gf345 looged onto site 172.30.19.25 (ESPN)

    

   If they want to enforce the policy, they can see that on 8/12  computer 123gf345 logged onto 172.30.19.25 (ESPN) ( and they dont care if you logged onto that site as JEFF, EF, HEY-YOU..). They look to see who was logged onto that computer (123gf345) at that time and they get back info that JEFF was the user logged on.

   I guess that by using guest, there is no trace of your email address logging into a remote site at that time, but, honestly, they won't care.  You were logged into the computer at that time on that date that connected to an unauthorized site - so you are the one that will be blamed (even if you were in a meeting and someone sat at your desk and used it to logon to the internet - YOU WILL HAVE TO PROVE it was not you logged onto the computer at that time)

    

   I know this from training and personal experience1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

3. 
   forestgirl | Aug 14, 2005 06:48pm | #16

   "I  also don't like having to click off the save-your-login-n-password-for-next-time option everytime. I never, ever save my account info that way."  Sounds like your secruity settings are preventing your computer from saving the info.  As mentioned in my post above, when I click on my Knots link, the 'puter takes me directly to the Knots front page, no log-in or password needed -- even easier than the old system.

   PS:  This doesn't require accepting "all cookies."  I have the site specifically on the allow list.  See my post in the other thread for details.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/14/2005 5:56 pm ET by forestgirl

4. 
   forestgirl | Aug 15, 2005 07:20am | #17

   Well, I guess I'm fortunate to only share my home computer with my hubby, and then only when he's home from Oregon.   I don't save any passwords on my store computer, in case one of the young customers breaks in sometimes and gets mischievous.  But I do save them on my home computer.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   CharlieStanford | Aug 15, 2005 04:04pm | #18

   Go to Primedius.com and sign up for their proxy service.

   Then buy a program like Window Washer.

   Put an anti-spyware program on your computer to root out keyloggers. 

   Be wary, your bosses efforts to monitor your activity will be frustrated and these moves could bring things to a head.

   Most companies forbid you to download and install software.  Run one of the spyware programs from their website to see if your employer has a keylogger installed on your machine.  If so, write a macro in Word that types "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" over and over.  You'll fill the keylog to capacity and when they read it they will know that you know there is a keylogger installed on your machine.  Can make for great fun if you are otherwise secure in your position.

    

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 15, 2005 05:17pm | #19

   PW, a question about Primedius.  Can it be set to not erase history??  I have no work situation to worry about (self-employed) and I rely heavily on the history stored on my computer.  A quick look at the site didn't answer the question.  TIA.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   CharlieStanford | Aug 15, 2005 05:31pm | #20

   Primedius will not erase the history trail that resides on the machine in the version I run.  It re-routes IP addresses through its own servers and shows gibberish IP addresses to IP providers, network administrators, and sites you visit.  IE history which resides on your machine shows the actual IP addresses as well as does the IE history function.

   Webroot's Window Washer cleans up everything that resides on your local drive. 

   Primedius + Window Washer equals pretty anonymous browsing. 

   Spyware catchers to eliminate keyloggers and programs like BossAnyware provide the last layer of protection.  Important to note that these work on fingerprints so they must be updated regularly.  It is possible that spyware could exist on your machine that will not be caught. 

    

1. 
   Ricks503 | Aug 15, 2005 11:06pm | #22

   See new sysop discussion   

   New Registration Update...1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1