new shellac finish “orange peels” under lamp weight
Fine French walnut art deco end table, circa 1930…….original shellac finish gone, worn out, many scratches, dings and dents. Carefully sanded down to wood using 150 to 600 grit SP, then 0000 wool……… applied Zinnser Bullseye shellac by brush, 6 thinned coats, then light sanding w//600 grit, then 0000 wool, then polishing compound, then meguir’s paste wax. Looks great but the finish is not stable under a weighted object, in this case a lamp base. Allowed to dry 2 days before placing lamp on it, but the surface “puckers” (like orange peel)where the wood base of the lamp sits. After all that work!…… then I had to use the 0000, compound and wax all over again to get it looking good. I can’t put anything on it or it puckers again. My first shellac job, what a lot of work, and so delicate. No wonder everyone went to lacquer.
What can I do to get this shellac finish to not orange peel under objects placed on it?
Thanks for all helpful answers offered.
Replies
Finishing Issue
Hard to pin point problem but I'll throw out a couple of possible things.
1- Positive the original coating was shellac ? Did you use paint remover? or sanding only to raw wood ? You didn't mention using any stain before finishing
2- Too many coats of shellac is not the best technique.
3- Don't use steel wool between coats.
4- Use fresh product.
5- Longer drying times before rubbing
Shellac finish was on it for sure; white powder when sanded and alcohol affected it. Sanded to bare wood, no stain.
If I had to guess, I would say that the shellac is not fresh, and I just bought it at Home Depot. No date I could find on the can unless it is in code. Anyone know how to tell the date? All research said that old shellac doesn't dry completely and seeing that is the best way to prove it is old. I can return it but all cansof it there are surely the same.
Finish sanding produces white dust so it appears to be fully dry, but as I have never used shellac before, I don't know for sure. The orangepeel shows up after leaving an object on it for only a few hours.
Other than taking it down to bare wood with alcohol and applying a lacquer finish instead, is there any way to salvage it? It does look so rich and brings out the burl walnut grain the best I have ever seen.
Shellac
If you bought the shellac at HD it is probably OK - cans don't sit there too long like a small hardware store.
The method for dating is confusing. A 10 in the beginning means 2010 - An 11 = 2011 - the other #'s will give you the month. I'm not exactly sure of the system but shellac can last a couple of years in an unopen can. You should be good. Seal coat is another choice.
It seems you're focused in on lacquer now. No promises but here's a plan. Give the finish you have more time to dry. Sand thoroughly to a dull sheen with 400 paper. Mist on several coats of lacquer - allow dry time - then one full coat. Let dry several days if not more and before rubbing out - do the test again with the object and see if the finish is harder.
SA
Thanks for your suggestions. One thing I have learned about a new shellac finish is to not concentrate the entire weight of a object like a lamp on its legs placed on a new shellac finish. To experiment, I cut a piece of thick cardboard to the outside dimensions of the lamp base including the legs and placed the cardboard between the lamp and the shellac finish instead of placing the lamp directly on the finish by its four legs. Works fine so far, no damage, so maybe it is delayed drying that is causing the problem, remains to be seen. Or, that shellac is soft and needs to be protected from weighty objects placed on it.
Anyway, I have learned a lot about shellac, such as doing a sample area first before doing the final finish. And, that it makes walnut look the best of any finish.
Not sure what overall time period for the six applied coats.
You might duplicate the applied finish on a sheet of clean glass, wait a couple days, then lift a corner with a sharp razor blade and see how flexible the finish is. I would expect it to break rather than flex. Then you could place the lamp on the glass and shellac to see if the shellac there is also affected. This comparison would sugest whether something in the wood causing the problem.
It sounds to me that there may be some sort of finish conflict between the shellac on the table and whatever is on the bottom of the lamp base. Are there some sort of felt pads on the lamp base?
I also agree that there are too many coats of shellac. Shellac is best when applied in the thinnest coat possible. Shellac also shrinks as it fully dries. The thicker the film, the longer it will take for the alcohol solvent to fully evaporate. The older the shellac the longer it takes to fully dry and, if too old, it may not dry at all. I would not put anything on top of it for a couple of weeks.
Thin cork was on the bottoms of the lamp legs and caused the first "orange peel" problem so i replaced them with thin felt......still the same problem. Took the felt off so the walnut legs were directly on the fnish.....still the problem. Tried just about everything now and no luck.
Is the finish just not dry enough after 4 days and maybe needs weeks to dry properly?
Not an expert but isn't 600 grit too finely sanded for raw wood?... Most people sand to 180 or 220 so the finish has something to bond/hold into.
I always use 600 and even 0000 wool for finish sanding on fine antique surfaces. Too much wood removal and many sanding marks can be seen through the finish when using 180 or even 220 grit on this burl walnut. It has such a dense hard grain that it shows every flaw in improper sanding. But, too, maybe others are not as picky as I am.
Maybe with shellac, rougher sandpaper might work better than it does with what I typically use as a finish........hand rubbed linseed oil or sprayed, then rubbed, varnish or lacquer. First time with shellac, so not an expert for sure.
Still think it has to be drying time for those 6 coats that is the problem, as I applied all of them after about an hour after the previous coat at a 1:3 alcohol/shellac ratio. To get brush marks out of the final smooth finish I had to use lots of coats as I sanded through 4 coats down to wood earlier. Even with the problem, I am sold on the gorgeous look of the wood under shellac as amber tinted lacquer can't touch it, IMO.
Thanks again to all for your interest.
I always use 600 and even 0000 wool for finish sanding on fine antique surfaces. Too much wood removal and many sanding marks can be seen through the finish when using 180 or even 220 grit on this burl walnut. It has such a dense hard grain that it shows every flaw in improper sanding. But, too, maybe others are not as picky as I am.
Maybe with shellac, rougher sandpaper might work better than it does with what I typically use as a finish........hand rubbed linseed oil or sprayed, then rubbed, varnish or lacquer. First time with shellac, so not an expert for sure.
Still think it has to be drying time for those 6 coats that is the problem, as I applied all of them after about an hour after the previous coat at a 1:3 alcohol/shellac ratio. To get brush marks out of the final smooth finish I had to use lots of coats as I sanded through 4 coats down to wood earlier. Even with the problem, I am sold on the gorgeous look of the wood under shellac as amber tinted lacquer can't touch it, IMO.
Thanks again to all for your interest.
I always use 600 and even 0000 wool for finish sanding on fine antique surfaces. Too much wood removal and many sanding marks can be seen through the finish when using 180 or even 220 grit on this burl walnut. It has such a dense hard grain that it shows every flaw in improper sanding. But, too, maybe others are not as picky as I am.
Maybe with shellac, rougher sandpaper might work better than it does with what I typically use as a finish........hand rubbed linseed oil or sprayed, then rubbed out varnish or lacquer. First time with shellac, so not an expert for sure.
Still think it has to be drying time for those 6 coats that is the problem, as I applied all of them after about an hour after the previous coat at a 1:3 alcohol/shellac ratio. To get brush marks out of the final smooth finish I had to use lots of coats as I sanded through 4 coats down to wood earlier. Even with the problem, I am sold on the gorgeous look of the wood under shellac as amber tinted lacquer can't touch it, IMO.
Thanks again to all for your interest.
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