Well, we’re FINALLY about to close on our new property. My wife and I have been looking for a buildable (and affordable) lot in Maryland forever. In a couple of weeks, the land search will end and the building planning will shift into high gear.
First priority is building my new shop. (I’m building my own timberframe home and need the shop in place so I can begin work on the timbers.)
I’m here to pick your brain on shop design.
Our lot is 3 acres. That will allow a fairly large building. I’m thinking something in the range of 25’x40′.
Cost is definitely an issue. I’ll spend the money to build it well, but every dollar I save here will be cash I can use on the house. I’m hoping to get away with a $10k-$12k budget.
A 10′ ceiling would be nice, but an 8′ ceiling would be cheaper.
I’m thinking of using standard roof trusses. Again, attic storage would be nice but I’m not sure the additional cost is justified.
I’ll use two standard single-car garage doors and a side entry door. Lots of windows along the south side and skylights to get as much light in as possible. External dust collector with 4″ PVC run in the gravel below the concrete slab. I still have to do the electric load calculations, but plan to provide plenty of service.
I don’t spray finish, so I don’t need a finishing booth. I’m going to include a bathroom and small office.
So, what do you think? I’ve seen and read the recent FWW article, but I’d like to hear your advice.
What size would you make the shop? Any tips? Anything you’d do differently if you had to do it again?
Replies
Take some time to calculate the roof overhang on the south side to make sure the windows are shaded in the summer. I've done woodworking in Maryland in the summer.
If you use scissor trusses, and you have an office and john at one end, build the ceiling of the office part (I'm assuming it they will be enclosed) strong enough for storage and/or mechanical equipment. You've already taken floor space for these things, so why not reclaim (some of) it upstairs, especially if the outside wall heights are 9 or 10 feet high to start with. It may seem big now, but just see how fast it gets small.
Go for the higher ceiling. Definitely. 8 feet is too low. Just use scissor trusses (am I using the right term?) which would allow the major portion of your celing to be higher in the central part of the building. It's annoying, difficult, and dangerous swinging wood around with an eight foot ceiling, in my opinion.
Scott
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Scissor trusses are a good idea. I'll price those the next time I'm at 84lumber. Trust me - I WANT 10' ceilings. I was just a little afraid of the extra stud and sheathing costs.
Careful design of the southern overhangs is also an excellent point. I'm putting the rollup doors on the north wall and plan to open them in hot weather, but I never thought about the solar gain through the windows. Is the a smarter way to do this than placing a stake in the ground and measuring the shadow? I'm sure the informations out there on the internet. I just don't know what to type into Google to search for it.
Any comments on the shop size? I've always worked in a 1-car garage, so anything over 12'x22' seems big.
I searched for
solar angle shade window
and got 4640 hits. This one http://www.srv.net/~tm_crw4d/opt/sunchrt.html was on the first page, and seems useful.
Absolutely amazing what you can find on the internet. Following Uncle Dunc's lead, I found a site by the University of Oregan that provided me with a sun chart for my location. Teamed with the information from the site he pointed me too, I've a pretty good idea that a 2' overhang on a 12/12 pitch roof will block the June/July/August sun between about 10AM and 2PM. Facing the shop windows 5 degrees east of due south should block the summer sun from about 3:30PM until sunset. Of course, I still have my skylights to deal with. Maybe those have to go. They won't work well with attic storage anyway. I'm also thinking light-colored shingles and some shade trees would be a good idea.
You guys have convinced me that the 10' ceiling is a priority. I could add a 2' knee wall and still use 8' studs and sheathing. The last time I tried to lay block was pretty comical. (comical in hindsight, not so funny at the time.) That would only be three courses of 8" block. Maybe I could handle that.
As for finishing the attic….. What kind of truss spacing and what bottom chord would I need? Seems like I'd need some serious lumber just to support my 225lbs in the middle of a 25' span. I don't want any posts in the middle of my shop floor. I'll ask the 84lumber guy this weekend.
The $10k-$12K budget doesn't cover nearly the finish detail that a house addition would. I'm looking at a floating slab with a shell on top. No insulation and no heating for now. No plumbing (the bathroom will be a rough-in) and I'll run all the electric. Once the house is complete, I'll finish the interior. I'm sure that will add a couple thousand to the total bill. I'm hoping to hook the RFH up to the house system, so I shouldn't need a separate heating unit. For the next couple of winters, a portable heater will have to do.
I investigated Morton buildings. I respect their quality and would love to save the construction time, but the cost is too high. If the house was finished and I was adding a shop, I'd seriously consider it. As it is, I'm going to be carrying two mortgages for the next couple of years. I have to watch every dollar.
Thanks again for all your comments.
>> ... I still have my skylights to deal with.
You can have skylights and an attic, it just means deep lightwells. I would tend not to worry about solar gain from skylights. The white walls of the lightwell won't absorb much heat. But if you want to avoid even that much gain, consider clerestory windows facing north. Lots of nice diffuse light, no heat.
JJ,
Talk to a structural engineer about the trusses and other building factors. It shouldn't cost you any more than a couple of hunderd dollars and it will be worth every penny. Structural engineers have saved me thousands of dollars by helping me get the structure right the first time and not having to retro fit something or add more supports later.
You wil never regret getting it right the fisrt time.
Matt-
$10 to $12K ! Wow, I'd like to live in America. I put a second floor addition of the size you mention on my house and spent $20K and that was in 1980. Two years ago the heating system for my shop (3500sf) cost $15K. Good luck.
As to other things you mention: Use 6 inch duct for your in-floor dust collection instead of the 4 inch. Very little additional cost and so much better. Spend whatever it costs to get the extra headroom, you won't regret it later. Plan for a spray booth even though you won't be building it now.
Jeff
Go for the 10' ceilings and attic trusses. You won't be sorry to have the space. Cost differential is minamal now, won't be later. You can postpone any attic finish work. Even leave out ceiling in main space if you use insulated roof.
Make sure that your shop is large enough to handle the massive timbers for your house comfortably and efficiently. you might even want to go for higher ceilings like a 12'. after seeing some of the problems frenchy has run into with his shop, i think you would be wise to build the biggest shop you can afford. I don't know what machinery you have right now, but you'll need some big machines when your building your house, and it would be a disaster if your shop was too small for them. my shop is in my garage, and aside from more space, i think heating and lighting are the two biggest downsides to it. make sure that your shop is well lit, and that your can keep it at a comfortable temperature or you won't be happy. good luck with your shop and your house.
JJ, sounds like your pretty convinced on the 10' ceilings. Mine are 12' but that wasn't my choice. Since you're putting in a bathroom, you might also consider a shop deep sink and maybe an eye-wash station. As for future expansion, that would be a location consideration. If the shop is located such that you have room to add on in the future, you're future space woes can be easily overcome. I would certainly include a set of sliding double doors or a double rollup door with drive up access. Preferably these would be located on the end of the building and not the side. A too small shop can become infinitly long just by opening the doors. Wood and equipment deliveries are much easier too. I have a friend that erected an inexpensive party canopy outside the back doors of his shop and then enclosed it with thick mil plastic. He stores his large wood orders there and it stays relatively warm and dry during the winter.
Just some thoughts to ponder..
Steve - in Northern California
I'd love a double roll up or sliding door. However, I was concerned about how to seal a sliding door and about the cost of a double rollup. The insulated single roolups are under $400 at HD. That seemed like a cheap and easy solution. I'll price a double rollup this weekend and see what the $$$ are.
I've considered outside wood storage, but can't seem to focus on what I want. I've thought of everything from a covered open-sided area to a solar kiln. That decision will have to be made after the house is complete.
Thanks for the suggestions.
2 recommendations:
1. Don't use scissor trusses. I have them in my house. They are responsible for excessive heat in my living and mstr bedroom. Too little vapor space to dissipate heat. The areas of the house adjacent to these rooms are noticably cooler during the day.
2. If you are planning to finish (drywall) the ceiling, its a real pain to work in the tight spaces left by scissor trusses for wiring and HVAC units. So, spend the extra $$$ now yo won't kick yourself later.
This is what I would do. Floor: concrete with insulation under, dust collection under floor where possible but only really needed for the table saw. Work out a floor plan before doing any building. Infloor heat tubing layed in top 2".
Overall building size 24x40. All dimensions based on 4' and 8' incraments.
Walls 2x6 on 24" ctrs, outside finish to match the house. Spray insulation when the house is done. Walls 10' high, roof joists to ridge beam to give clear ceiling. Might need gable shape beam to support the center of the ridge and transfer to the outer walls. This would give two main areas of 24x20. one for main workshop and the other for office, 1/2 bath, and materials/finishing area. If you hunt around you will find good stuff on clearance, ie windows, skylights, doors, bathroom materials.
have you considered roughing in an overhead door to man door height? Screen doors keep out lots of bugs and double doors will open pretty wide. My opinion.
I would certainly look into a steel building - I had one for a shop at a marina I built on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and found it economincal and quick to erect, spacious beyond anything I could have put up in wood.
If you do wook, check out the shop ideas of the man in the Tools and Shop issue of FWW last November. I think he is dead right about locating the windows up high to save on wall space. In my current shop, I have the windows in the center of the walls like the house and it ruins the wall space.
go for a wood floor if you can afford it and design the dust collection, electrical and lighting before you put up the dry wall. If possible in the construction, plan for your lumber storage in steel like Home Depot. you'll be thankful for years to come.
Joe Clark
whatever you build as you start your house you'll find it's not big enough. My shop is roughly 30 x50 and while it's loaded with stuff, I was amazed at how much had to go outside. You have to plan on handling a lot of sawdust/shavings. so be carefull about that aspect. (I'm talking about yards and yards of it..... storage and handling is another issue. just plan on renting/buying a forklift. Those timbers will break your back lugging them around. Fully 20% of my time is spent handleing timbers. Plan as much as you will but when that semi pulls up nothing will be in the order you need it to be. without a forklift (I've had as many as three here but then I always do over do things) I'd spend more than half of my time handleing wood.
If you are careful you should be able to buy an older used forklift and use it for several years and then sell it for about what you paid for it, so there really isn't any cost involved. If you need details feel free to e-mail me and I'll go into it at length.
length is real important since there are times when you have to connect one end of one timber to the other end of another timber to confirm everything fits As far as height, I work under a 7 foot ceiling and it hasn't been too much of a handicap. you work on the floor all of the time anyway since it would be impossible to do much standing ten feet in the air.
Plan on building some really stout sawhorses. Nothing you can buy will hold up to several beams while you work on them. I made mine out of 4x4 black walnut but then I could buy black walnut hearts 8 feet long for two bucks each. I used those that I rejected for other uses so it really wasn't as extravagent as it sounds.
Power,
nothing is worse than having extension cords lying all over tripping you and causing tools to run hot because of low voltage. Make certain you have a lot of overhead outlets. (the walls will frequently be covered with stuff or blocked off). Use a lot of 20 amp curcuits, many timber framing tools take 15 amps to run.
Have you found your tools yet? If you're interested I'll tell you those that I love and those that have been a disappointment.
finally I'd use building the timber frame shed as an excuse to practice my timber framing skills. I couldn't and the first things that I built were the entry way and everything you see on your way in. Now I recognize how slow/poor I was and if I had it to do over wish I could have reversed the procedure. that is work from the back to the front. My work now is a lot faster and better than my first work.
Good luck and don't hesitate to e-mail
I built my own shop- real easy! I used the roof sheathing -laid on top of the slab ( I had someone else do the slab) to produce a jig for mass producing trusses. I built 12 in 6 hrs. Once the first was built I laid it flat on the sheathing and used little 2x4 cut offs staggered on each side(top and bottom) of the rafters to create the jig. this allowed me to create a Box truss so I had plenty of storage in the attic! I have Autocad drawings I can send if you like! I built a 16x24 for a little less than 4K finished inside with gyp. bd. Have insul. in walls. 9 foot ceiling (a must b/c of 8' plywood size!
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