I’m in the market for a new saw and was hoping to get some opinions. The major factors I’m looking for are;
1) Price. around 1500$ shipped.
2) Value
3) Riving Knife, Riving Knife, Riving Knife.
Been thinking of the Grizzly GO690, but wasnt sure if there were other comprable saws out there. Going to be used mainly for small projects like cabinets and built-ins.
Replies
I don't have any Grizzly equipment myself, but I've read favorable comments about most of their machines.
Do you want to be able to crosscut a 4x8 sheet of plywood on the saw? Rip 8/4 stock regularly? Cabinet saw style cabinet? Preference for 120V or 240V? Roll it to side when not needed?
I do plan to rip plywood and hardwood. Also, I prefer cabinet style (for better stability and dust control) and 220v. I plan to leave it centered in my shop/garage and build a 4X6' outfeed/assembly bench. The thing i'm most exited for is building a crosscut sled which will expand my ability do make larger drawers.
A saw like the Grizzly G0690 or G1023RL would leave some money for a mobile base, and a new blade or two. FWIW, I've been really happy with my Shop Fox W1677, which is a sister saw to the original G1023SL.
Consider old Iron
You might want to consider my plans. Right now I get by with my DeWalt Hybred, but my goal is to pick up some old IRON ! 3+HP 12" blade. Late 30's to early 50's add a riving knife and an overarm blade guard with dust collection. Those older saws have MASS and longevity. I have 4 pieces of old "Arn". Not only is it fun to restore, it's fun to use.
And at 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of new equipment you end up with great equipment.
I found my Grizzly 1023RLX off of CL for about $700 which came with a mobile base that I sold for $65. There are some things about this saw that I don't like but I am generally happy with it. What makes this saw fully functional is my auxillary saw table/workbench and sliding sled for accurate cross cutting.
Bret
I don't know why I can't post photos here anymore?
DB problem
Gina made a post in General Discussions indicating they are still having some issues after a database restore.
I just bought the Grizzly 0691 a few months ago and I have been thoroughly impressed. The build and setup was fairly clear in the instructions (I did have one question, but their customer service is phenominal). The saw performs amazingly well and all of the features made it an excellent value.
I think its on sale right now for just under 1400 with shipping, though they use UPS and if you want them to lower if off of the back of the truck you have to pay like 40 bucks extra (apparently you're better off if you have a loading dock but alas, my home does not have one...yet...)
I went with the 0691because of the larger table, it makes it much easier when trying to crosscut long pieces (like plywood) and it's only about 100 dollars more.
I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have about that saw or grizzly in general. I have grizzly tablesaw, drill press, joiner, and dust collection along with several accessories for those pieces so feel free to message me.
Brent Prigge
Austin, TX
Bruce, I have considered waiting to find a used 66 and restore it (love doing that), but i figured the time, which is a commodity around here with two daughters under 5, and having to retro a riving knife warranted a new unit.
Brent- Which piece of Griz machinery did you purchase first? Is the value/dollar really that good? I looked at Rinkon as well for a bandsaw but thankfully that passed since i have heard horros stories about their company.? I am looking at the GO690 and figure the 29 1/2" rip cap. should be plenty for making cabinets and such. Also plan to make an adjustable table (like the "Ultimate outfeed table") for outfeed, and one on wheels to use as a support for ripping ply. Which DC do you have and are you happy with the performance with the GO691?
Grizzly 1023RL versus 0690
Grizzly makes two basic 10" cabinet table saws (product numbers change slightly depending upon the exact configuration and options):
1023RL -- this is a substantial revision of the tried-and-true 1023 they have sold for many years. While the primary revision is the addition of a riving knife, other major components were also changed.
0690 -- a fairly new product with specifications substantially the same as the "new" 1023RL
Is there anyone out there with "real world" experience who can compare the above two Grizzly products?
Thanks.
Bruce gave good advice
There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of used older PM 66's and Unisaw's from a prouder American era that would be much better choices for you, and for about half of what you want to spend.
Installing a riving knife in either saw is a piece of cake, since it could easily be mounted where the blade guard is mounted. I've made the last 3 for the saws that I have restored, and it took less than 1 hour for the last one. The steel needs to only be a little thinner than your saw blade kerf.
I am just about finished with a 1942 Unisaw restoration. It has a newer 3 hp. Baldor single phase motor, and I fitted it with a 52" biesemeyer commercial fence. It will run rings around anything Grizzly makes for half the price.
You should reconsider. You can put that money towards wood for making projects.
Just a different opinion.
Jeff
I literally search CL and E-bay daily for a 66 and Uni-saw and never see any under 1000 shipped. I wouldnt mind restoring an older machine, but that takes tons of time that I dont have. What would you say is the biggest difference in a refurb 66-vs- a new Grizz? also, do you guys have pics of your refurb's, i'd love to see the steps and finishes.
The differences between a 66 & a grizz
It's a long list.
1. Trunnion castings. The PM 66's have, and always have had, the stoutest castings. This gives excellent vibration dampening, and much better performance over all. The machining is also much better, so raising and lowering the blade, tilting the trunnion, etc.....all are effortless, assuming proper maintenance.
2. Cast iron table flatness: speaks for itself. Also, with regard to this category, seasoned castings. Castings are poured, and left un-machined to release stresses in the castings for a long time. Old woodworking machine manufacturers would pour their castings, and literally let them set for 10 years or so, before machining them into finished machines.
Asian made castings are still moving a little, and the few that I have seen in use aren't very flat overall. Also, look at the webbing on the castings of an older PM, and compare it to the lack thereof on Asian built machines.
3. Quality in detail, fit and finish.
4. NEMA magnetic starters vs. IEC (every grizz get's one of these). One a NEMA magnetic starter, if you have a power issue, your heaters cost about $10 and 60 seconds to replace. With an IEC 'switch', if you have an overload problem, you're replacing a $500 motor.
Answer yourself this one question......If you could have a restored, perfectly operating older PM 66 or Delta Unisaw delivered to your house that was "plug and play", ready to make sawdust, would you still considered buying the other saw?
Keep this in mind......my opinions are biased. All I do now is restore old woodworking machines. I ran my own custom woodworking business for over 20 years. 15 years ago, my shop was filled with tools made by Jet. I thought they were adequate. Then, I bought my first piece of owwm, and found that the differences in quality were immense.
At present, I have 12 machines in my shop either being restored, or waiting patiently in line. The one I'm working on now is a 1915 Berlin Machine Works (now Yates-American) #199 16" jointer. It was dropped off a truck, and cracked in half. I've done all the cast iron welding, now am in the process of grinding and scraping the ways for the tables to be flat to each other again. Almost done!
Here's a before photo. I'll post an "after" when it's done.
Jeff
Old "Arn"
Great stuff ! Nimitz Class ? No, it can't be ( not nuclear) Must be an older Essex Class ;-)
Hey, Bruce, how's it going?
Definitely not nuclear! I just purchased a NOS 5 hp, 3 phase Leeson motor for it ($150). The cutterhead is 4 knife, with babbitt bearings. The bearings are in great shape, so I'll remove a layer of shims, scrape them in a little, and this machine will be ready for another 100 years of hard labor very soon.
I have developed a serious fondness for Yates-American machinery, and as I find them, intend on filling the shop with Y-A tools.
Yates bought Berlin Machine Works back in 1916, and Yates-American merged in 1928, and P.B. Yates kept the design of the 199 jointer up until this time. There are only a handful or two of these documented over at OWWM.com, so I felt it was necessary to save this one.
The welding was a lot of work, but worth it. I'm doing the "body work" right now, getting it ready for paint. After that, it's going to a reasonably local shop to have the tables blanchard ground. It was sitting in the elements for 35 years inside a barn, so the tables are a little pitted. I won't need to remove too much, and besides, they are over an 1" thick anyway, so there's plenty of cast iron to allow for a little cleanup.
Good to hear from you again. I've been absent for quite a while here.
Jeff
Old Arn
There are only a handful or two of these documented over at OWWM.com, so I felt it was necessary to save this one. I frequent OWWM.com & org. "The Place for old arn nuts"
I wonder how many wives are given that excuse ;-) But a good one anyway. It worked for my DeWalt GP RAS.
FYI: Nimitz and Essex are classes of Aircraft Carriers.
Some how the sentences got all jumbled up when editing.
Bruce
I got your meeting, and I certainly "got" the part about aircraft carriers. She weighs in at 2180 lbs, not including the motor.
I've got the "Arn" bug big time, and I've never had so much fun before in my life. With woodworking business in the crapper because of the economy, this has given me something to do.
I'm a frequent flyer over at both OWWM.org and OWWM.com. Great sites.
The "Arnfest" pre-party was at my shop this year, and will be again next year. You should come next year!
Jeff
Bugs
Jeff, I'd say that having the old-arn bug is way better than some others one could have. Most of my stationary tools are of the '60s-'70s vintage Delta, so they don't qualify as being old arn. Plus, they are the smaller models typical for home shops, not the big guys you're working with. I do envy your new endeavors, though.
Ralph
60's Delta stuff is actually quite good in quality. As you know, the biggest issue with tool acquisition is
1. Having electrical capacity in your shop to run large hp machinery. This includes 3 phase, rotary phase converters, vfd's.
2. Having the ability or desire to move around heavy pieces of machinery.
As to issue 1, I have 200 amp service in my shop, and recently added a 10 hp. RPC from American Rotary. I was able to buy the panel from them, plug and play, and add a 10 hp. 3 phase Baldor idler motor off Craigslist for $100. I've got under $400 invested in it, and I can now run any three phase equipment up to 7.5 hp in the shop. That includes a lot of machinery. Also, I purchased a VFD to operate 3 phase tools that benefit from speed control. A lot of people don't realize that for under $200, you can run any 3 phase tool 3 hp. or less, with perfectly balanced 3 phase power from a 20 amp, 230V circuit. Obviously, as it pertains to this thread, that would include 98% of all the cabinet saws out there, which usually have 3 hp, 3 phase motors.
As to issue 2, I have a Bobcat with forks on it that can lift, safely, up to about 2500 lbs off a trailer. That being said, I safely unloaded a 2800 Hendey metalworking lathe with my son (190 lbs.) hanging off the back of the Bobcat, while my wife drove the trailer out from under the lathe. This year, I also added a 2 ton engine hoist ($80 used) and a 5500 lb. pallet jack ($50) so that I can move these machines around in the shop.
Once anyone gets an opportunity to do any work on an old machine like Yates American, Northfield, Tannewitz, etc......and sees how cheaply they can be purchased, it's hard to go back to using pacific rim machinery again.
Happy holidays,
Jeff
Well, I just finished typing
see below
Jeff
Its official
Well, The Grizzly GO690 is on the way. Thanks everyone for your posts and advice. The reasoning behind my choice are;
Since I have limited time to be in the shop, restoring a machine is not an option at this time. We recently bought a great house that is in need of up-dating, and between work, and my family, I need out of the box (after meticulously assembling and tuning) accessibility.
Due to a limited budget of under 1500$, my choices were somewhat limited. Based on a Fine Woodworking showdown of Hybrids, the Craftsman was actually my first choice for a while since it came with a Bisemeyer fence, but the larger motor and riving knife on the GO690 warranted the extra money.
In reading posts and reviews on Grizzly as a company, I felt secure that if I did have a problem with the saw, I wouldn’t be left in the dark. I haven’t heard many stories of major issues on their machines, but everyone who did need to contact them, received great service.
Since I will be doing mainly built-ins and cabinets, I thought the 691 was going to take up more space than the extra rip capacity warranted.
Once again, thanks everyone, your help was greatly appreciated. And if you don’t mind, check out my thread on DC suggestions.
PS- I still plan to find the ultimate resto-66 one day.
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