Hi guys – this is my first post here so be gentle! I’m a 48 yo “gurl” relatively new to woodworking. Took the Woodworking I and II classes at the University of Memphis which are basic introduction to the tools, safety, – we made a stop block, two push sticks and a slanted CD shelf in the first class, used hand tools first – planes and such/then introduced to the power stuff and then in II we made a small table with a drawer. While hubby and I were building a 3 car SUV garage – 2 bays for him – 1 (24×13′ w/9′ ceiling-concrete floor) for me for woodworking with the plan to start with a table saw and pick up additional tools as the need/pocketbook agreed – I got lucky (I think?). An older man was selling his house, moving and getting out of woodworking. I got a 12″ contractor style Craftsman tablesaw, 20″ bandsaw (both 220), floor model variable speed drill press, Craftsman 4″ joiner, Craftsman 10″(?) radial arm saw, Craftsman 20″ scroll saw w/fold-up stand, full-size lathe, shaper, router w/table, 4″ belt sander, large air compressor, large cabinet style box fan on casters. Included were knives/cutters (?) for the lathe, several extra blades for the table saw, extra blades for the bandsaw, 3 long pipe-style clamps, large scrap box on casters, very “bedraggled” work table (sorry- just can’t call it a bench – it’s pretty sad!) Unfortunately the only thing he had a manual for was the router which is so old I’ll probably replace it anyway. It was an all or nothing deal – paid $1500.
I know Craftsman tools are not really the “best” but they all run smoothly (or did in his shop when he showed them to me.) The only thing I got that I’m not familiar with is the lathe and I’ve read enough horror stories on the internet to make me leave it alone til I get some instruction – or at least get a hold of a good beginner’s book. although the SO thinks he remembers the stuff he learned in his high school shop class, I’m not so sure.
The garage is finished except for the electrical – I’ve claimed my tools (he held them for me while we finished the garage).
I’ve purchased Care and Repair of Shop Machines for the SO – he works on equipment at a local concrete/paving plant so I’m pretty confident he can handle this stuff with the right information. (I think I got that book right – bought it here) BUT would like some suggestions on the following – BTW – what I plan to be building is adirondack style furniture with some carving, colored stains to make it special and other outdoor projects.
1) I’d really like to clean these machines up ALL OVER/possibly even replace some peeling paint – he apparently had not been using them a lot for a while so they’re pretty dusty/grimy. Best way to tackle this/products to use?
2) Electrical – should I try to determine a FIRM location for the tablesaw and bandsaw to locate the 220 outlets or would you do some extra ones just in case (Okay – I know what I want – just want some support to sway SO) – also have seen the recommendations for 110s every 4 feet.
3) Dust collection – the man I bought from didn’t use any and had health problems partly due to this. I don’t want to start too low-end BUT I don’t have a lot to spend at this point. I have a double 3-6 window in my side and double french doors – also double door that opens into hubby’s side. Suggestions? Can I get by with a good shop vac and hook up to table saw and primary sanding areas to begin?
Truthfully, I’m probably a bit overwhelmed at this point BUT since I don’t have electricity yet it’s not too bad. I realize this was long but any comments, ideas will be greatlly appreciate.
Replies
Rob,
What a great way to start WW, and a bit overwhelming at the same time. I'm sure that others will pitch in but I'll start with what I think are the most important aspects of your post.
Power: since most of your equipment will probably be mobile since you really don't have sufficient space to permanently place everything, do a scale layout with cutouts and look to see what is the best layout for the permanent equipment and then where would you place mobile tools when they are in use, both singularly and in combination. This will give you some ideas for locating power outlets and I would urge you to consider overhead outlets for the mobile equipment and the work bench. I would place 220 outlets even where you don't think you need them today. I also have 220 ceiling outlets. In the kitchen, most experts agree on the "triangle" the spacing and relationship of the three most used areas of the kitchen: the sink, refrigerator and the stove. I think the same is true for WW. What are the three tools ( I include the work bench as a tool) that you will use the most and cluster these to minimize the travel back and forth. I personally find that most of work travels from the table saw ("TS") radial arm saw("RAS") jointer and work bench. Don't be reluctant to stick the work bench in the middle of the room rather than smacking it up against the wall because that is the way "it is always done."
Dust Collection: I hate to see skimp here. You can inexpensively install two 450 cfm ceiling mounted air filters kits from Penn States for $100 per (two strategically placed will create a good circular current); the shop vac with 2.25" ducting works fine for smaller equipment (although it is loud); and, a 2hp cyclone DC for the larger equipment plus ducting and remote switching (on/off for both the DC and shop vac on one remote unit) can all be installed for about $1,000. You can spend much more but I think this is a reasonable minimum DC system.
Lighting: If you have followed some of the recent posts, you can't have too much!
Storage: Don't underestimated how much room is consumed for storage, especially wood storage. The more projects you finish, the more space you need for all of the those great scraps and the overstock. Not to mention the wood you'll want rack to acclimate for the next project.
Tuning the tools: There is a pretty good chance that most of the tools need a through cleaning and tuning. This may be a good place to start your library with some excellent books on the various tools you have mentioned. Not only will they address repair and maintenance, but provide you with a great deal of information on usage, safety, jigs, and project ideas. You should probably consider getting all of the saw blades and planner knives sharpened.
A good place to start: The nice thing about your situation is that you have a unique opportunity to learn your tools while building your shop cabinets and work bench.
I'm sure that I overlooked some of your questions but there is a lot of more experienced WW out there who will fill in the gaps and provide different perspectives.
Welcome!
Doug
Rob,
Sounds exciting ! First thing first, gotta get hubby to allow you to store wood in front of his vechicles...or perhaps overhead....I suspect you have a routine all worked out so put it to work for ya...
With 24x13 dimensions, your probably going to put most of your tools on one wall capitalizing on shared support space and storage underneath...kinda like Norm does in New Yankee Workshop.
I don't have a dust collection system either...so I wear a respirator much of the time.
Good luck and keep the questions comming, and welcome
Hi Rob... Welcome to the friendliest group of people on the net. Let me start with something that is very important to me. Get yourself a good pair of safety glasses, some earmuff type hearing protectors and a pack of cheap disposible dust masks. USE THEM !!! Most of us old-timers are going deaf from not wearing the earmuffs. One good way to start to know your machinery is to thoroughly clean it. Take one machine at a time, use a shop-vac or air compressor to blow out all the accumulated sawdust and spider webs from the machines. A bit of sandpaper will remove any flaking paint from the cabinets. I prefer to use Rustoleum Machine Grey primer as my color scheme. As for the machined surfaces, use some fine steel wool and a good paste wax, and a lot of elbow-grease to clean and protect the surfaces. I use good old Johnsons Paste Wax or Butchers wax because they are cheap, easy to find and do not contain any Silicon. Silicon does not 'play well' with many wood finishes. For the gears inside that need some lubrication, use any of the bicycle chain spray lubricants as they tend to NOT collect sawdust and other junk. As for electric connections, I prefer overhead electric 'drops' and short HEAVY extension cords. You will probably change the layout of your shop several times as you gain more experience, so do not 'hard-wire' any of the machines. A fast and easy way to refurbish the workbench is a double thickness layer of MDF board. It is cheap, strong, flat, and if you accidently drill a hole in it, you won't cry. Can you find a wooodworkers club in your area?? The Guys and Gals there are always willing to help with your questions. Some of the people on this board will quietly snicker about you getting Sears stuff. Ignore them... they just like spending money on high name (price) tools for the snob appeal.
Don't be afraid to visit us often. SawdustSteve (Long Island, NY)
Hey Rob
Congratulations for starting out where most hobbyists like me end up after several years. It sounds like you have enough equipment to keep you going for a long time. People put down Craftsman a lot, but it should do fine, ntil your experience tells you otherwise. I highly recommend the book Mastering Woodworking Machines by Mark Duginske to help you tune things up and understand how they're supposed to work. By all means consider dust collection now. If I were starting form scratch I would design my basement shop around centralized dust collection ( which might need 220). A good shop vac will help, but won't be all you need. I think a recent issue of American Woodworker had a good article for hobbyists on designing a system, as well as oneof the books at Taunton by Sandor Najancsky (sp?).
Stan
Hey Rob
Sounds like you are going to be busy for a while with all your "new" treasures!
As far as the lathe goes it is a simple machine, but takes a lot more work / practice to get some good work off of it. That will probably be the last machine you need to worry about for what you said you were planning on building.
When you do get to that point and have the interest in it, there are a lot of books out there written about woodturning by people that can write but don't know diddley about turning!
When you are ready here is a site for the AAW ( American Association of Woodturners) you mentioned the classes at Memphis U Don't know where you live but there are 7 chapters in Tennessee. You can call them and go to some meetings and be able to find all the help and info you need from them. Some chapters will put classes on, have demo's et.
http://www.woodturner.org/locals/aawlocal.cfm
This is directly to the chapter page, scroll down to Ten.
As some one above stated...1st get safety glasses/ hearing protection / and some thing for dust protection, I'm not much on the "cheep" dust mask...but what what are your lungs et. worth???
Go get your hands dirty.
Marsh
HI ROB: WELCOME to knots,if you hang out here long enough you will soon learn many new ways to use your new Craftsman power tools & please don"t ever be affraid to ask questons..Hey theres nothing wrong with using Craftsman tools,most of us have em or started out with them.. I recomend you pick up some good woodworking books & brush up on your tool skils..
Best of luck with your new shop.. ToolDoc
Wow - thanks for all the great input. Good eye protection was one of the things they really stressed in the classes I took, however, they provided the earmuff protection but didn't really encourage their use - didn't discourage it-just "it's here, use it if you like." Same thing with dust masks, however, they did have a really good dust collection system directly connected to all the power tools, EXCEPT for when we were working at a bench using a palm sander. DC is a priority with me but it may be the fall before I get that part accomplished. Out of curiosity, I actually checked out the woodturning link provided by "stantheman" and discovered a local woodshop (okay it's 20 miles from me but then I drive 27 to work) that has a woodturner's chapter that meets monthly AND they also offer advanced classes on all sorts of stuff (one for woodcarving coming up soon - which is something I wanted to add to my adirondacks to make them special!). On lighting I got Daylite skylights for the garage - a 12" one for my section (supposed to be the equivalent of 5-100w bulbs) and 2-8" for hubbie's side - they're being installed this weekend but I had already planned to have additional stuff - needless to say in the winter time I'll be working a lot in the evening and it's dark when I leave work. Great suggestions on reference books so will get those and didn't mention before but the guy I got my stuff from also gave me SEVERAL year's worth of back issues of FWW - I haven't organized those yet but that's what led me to this site/subscription. SawdustSteve - hubby's getting a copy of your post although, I'll probably go with Rustoleum "some other color" - okay I'm a "beachy" kinda girl so I'll probably add some color to my stuff. Overhead drops - in the shop at UofM they had overhead drops - basically metal box w/4 outlets on it and it was convenient EXCEPT being 5'1" it was a stretch sometimes - 'course mine will be set at the perfect height for ME. BTW I'm actually driving to Bayville, Long Island in August - taking one of my "labby" girls to visit her "kids" - if you ain't a REAL dog person you just wouldn't get it - hahaha.
Thanks again - I will certainly depend on you guys for guidance and info. Robin, Doug, Molly and Sadie (hey does his mean mom's going to build us a doghouse?!?!? - I sure like the couch better!)
Congratulations on finding such a wide ranging set of tools for that price. I'd consider that a great deal even if they are mostly craftsman, sometimes people see craftsman and think of the quality of their current tools, forgetting that stuff put out 15-20+ years ago was actually quite nice and heavy duty.
Those old machines will definately serve you well if you spend the time tuning them all back into shape.
As everyone else has mentioned Dust Collection is something you'll find very very useful, not only from a cleanliness (sp?) standpoint, but its just better for your long term health.
My tiny shop currently only has a shopvac performing DC duties, but I'll say that I dream about getting a nice DC setup so that when i'm cutting through MDF my shop (garage) doesn't get the MDF haze as i like to call it. You know what i'm talking about, that feeling where you can tell you have dust in your teeth from talking :) After mounting hookups to my CMS and Router table my little shop vac has taken on a second life going from a tool used to clean out the car periodically to being one of the top 2 or 3 used tools in my shop. Though it is a bit loud for my tastes, a traditional DC unit would be alot quieter.
JD
Thanks. I've considered going ahead an getting a better quality shop-vac BUT then maybe I'd be better served spending that money on a true DC unit. I'll probably investigate both options and just be really good about wearing a dust mask and keeping it clean initially.
Rob,
If you have not visited the web site below...
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/Index.html
DC is complex and to do it wrong is a waste of money...
Thanks - I haven't read through it but plan to this weekend. What a great source of information.
Robin, Doug, Molly & Sadie (so that dust stuff can hurt us labbies too??)
I have a few old Craftsman tools I bought used in 1975. A joiner, a drill press, a band saw, and I just replaced my 1950's 10" table saw with a better saw. All of these tools have their limits and none are as good as the cabinet saws and high end tools you'll hear discussed on the forum. But, all my Craftsman tools are still capable of doing better work than I am!
Keep the tools, tune them, clean them, replace blades and belts, buy a dado, some good brad point bits, and a router. You'll kown when you've outgrown the hobbist tools.
By the way, wear gloves when you're working back in the depths of the machines. I found black widows in lots of dark places in my machines!
Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions including the one about the spiders. I think brown recluse spiders are more prevalent in my area but the gloves are a great idea. Actually I think he gave me some dado blades in the all the stuff I got. I'm comfortably familiar with the majority of the basic power tools (comfortable but still VERY respectful) but he did give me a good bit of "attachments/blades" that I'm not familiar with. I'm sure I'll get all the info I need as I need it from this forum.
Robin
I know dust collection will probably be lower on your priority list. But when you're ready here is a very good website that describes the health hazards and practical solutions to collecting wood dust. I've almost got my cyclone built. Good luck.
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/Index.html
Larry
Thanks Larry - that is a great site and I emailed it to hubby. Haven't had time to read it all but hopefully will sometime this weekend - currently at work doing inventory - okay, not right this minute - but doing it nevertheless. Rob
Rob... Everything your little ole heart could desire [for information] is right here at Taunton Press. Look in the header of the forum. Books, litature and more. Any topic you could hope or wish for.
Fine book stores every where carry Tauton also, so you could "preview" what you might like. Add libraries to the list too.
You're probably right - I have already ordered one book and am looking at several more. I think I said in one of my earlier posts that what brought me to this website (and subscription) was several years worth of back issues of FWW that I got with my tools. My electrical is getting done this week so all this information has been very helpful. Rob
Hi Rob and congrats, sounds lie you're off to a good start....The one thing I did when setting up a new shop is paint the walls, ceiling and the floor, yes i said the floor, white (use epoxy paint on the floor). You won't believe the difference in the reflected light inside your shop. You can literally get away with fewer light fixtures and it won't cost you anything every month. My shop looks like a laboratory. HAHAHAHA...Don't care, it works for me.
As for the Craftsman tools? I started there, as a lot of people did and it got me started without a huge start-up cost. I have since replaced it all because my skill level dictated it.
Have fun!!!!
Hi, Rob, welcome. As Larry and stantheman said, dust collection should one of your top priorities. I have a basement shop where I have installed a JSD air filter that runs 24/7 and a Delta dust collector that I run every time I turn on a machine. I used a shop vac for years and can't believe the difference. The next tool purchase for me is a 1" hose to use with my portable power tools.
Good luck with your new/old toys.
Dan T.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled