Replies

1. 
   cuttoff | Jun 11, 2002 06:47am | #1

   Well Steven, I would start with some simple bearing bits. With these you can get the feel of the router and start to understand its characteristics. After you get used to it.... (two or three years..no I'm just kidding) then start working with jigs, etc. The bottom line is, don't expect a router to be your cure all. Accept it as a tool that needs to be learned and take your time. Good things will come from this method.

   John

1. 
   slm643 | Jun 11, 2002 07:52am | #4

   thanks John, i have 6 or 7 bits now but i am looking for a table and maybe a lift ,what do you think would be a good start?

1. 
   cuttoff | Jun 11, 2002 04:50pm | #8

   The table will be an excellent addition to your shop and the lift will certainly make fine adjustments much easier. I have a table but not a lift so I can't make a suggestion as to a brand, maybe someone else can help out there. I have the big PC 7518 in my table and it has a micro adjustment capability so I use that in lieu of a lift.

   The thing about tables is that once you get your router in there and all setup you find yourself reluctant to pull it out when you need to route by hand. I added a PC 7529 plunge router to my shop shortly after I started using the table. It is a nice compliment to the table based router.John

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 11, 2002 07:26pm | #9

   John, have you seen the details on the Veritas router mounting device?  It's one of the reasons I really like that table.  The router can be removed or mounted "in 30 seconds or less."  Have actually heard real-life reports that it works!  Have to admit though, with the new plunge/fixed sets, it's also very convenient to just buy an extra fixed base to keep attached to your router table.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   cuttoff | Jun 11, 2002 07:43pm | #10

   I just went to the website and checked it out. Looks like a nice concept and I think the 30 second concept is probably achievable. I was wondering how they managed to keep the base plate on, now I know. I was thinking it was some kind of router raiser device but its not.John

2. 
   forestgirl | Jun 11, 2002 08:41pm | #11

   It is pretty slick, isn't it?!  The fact that you don't have to remove the sub-base on your router, and there are no screws involved make it the ideal solution IMHO.  In my dreams, there is a Veritas table with the Freud installed, easily removed if I need it for plunge work, and my little PC router on the side for all my hand work.  Although the Veritas table tips up easily for adjustments, a Router Raizer might be nice.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

3. 
   gerry001 | Jun 15, 2002 07:51pm | #29

   Is this about the Veritas round router base? If so, it works nicely and I've used it for several years now. Takes just a few seconds to pop out of the table to change bits or use it hand held. Only time I remove it is for another base that handles larger bits.

   Their system for attaching the plate and cutting the table to recieve it is very well done, and the price is nice.

   Caveat -- The plates are not flat, and I went back and forth with them on this. I had to lap mine so it would sit perfectly flush with the top of the table.

   Gerry

4. 
   forestgirl | Jun 16, 2002 03:46am | #30

   Gerry, I think this is a totally different thing.  They make a 3/16" thick steel router table top (16" x 24") with a great quick-change router clamp system underneath.  Table has inserts, pivot posts.  Available with their fence for $239.  They provide plans for making a base, or the option to buy their base pre-made.  Table-top tilts up or turns over for adjustments, bit changes, etc.    Found at this link:

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=43885&category=1&SID=&ccurrency=2

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

5. 
   gerry001 | Jun 16, 2002 05:20am | #31

   Forest Girl,

   Yes, I see now; I think that's a newer version of their original steel top. Looks interesting, but more than the $20 items I was referring to:-) I wonder what the repeatability is on the quick-change clamps. It appears you need to loosen them and remove the router to change bits. Depending on their locking mechanism, this could shift the center by several 'thou. Not a problem for some cuts, but rather upsetting for others, especially if you have to adjust a previous cut. May not be an issue, but I tend toward the paranoid until proven otherwise.

   Pricewise, it's not that much more than a quality top. I've bought quite a bit from Veritas, and their quality (and design) tends to be excellent. I passed on their original, though, as I wanted an offset mount. That allowed me to (much) later upgrade to an Incra fence.

   The biggest challenge, of course, is knowing what you'll want to do and need two years from now...

   Gerry

6. 
   forestgirl | Jun 16, 2002 05:40am | #32

   I know what you mean about "two years down the road."  It can be tough sometimes, LOL!

   I haven't actually used the Vertias top, but just looking at it I'm not sure why you'd need to remove the router to change bits.  It's much less cluttered underneath than the little junk table I'm using now (Black and Decker top that I put wings on, scrapped out the legs and hung it off my table saw), and I just reach in with my wrench and loosen the collet and change the bit.  The Veritas would be much easier to access because it can lift up, and it's fairly free of clutter underneath.

   Maybe I'm missing something?  :-(forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

7. 
   gerry001 | Jun 16, 2002 07:22am | #33

   Nope, this was my tern to miss it. I've used one style for so long, I wasn't thinking of a swing-up top. I think you're right on the bit changing.

   Gerry

2. 
   forestgirl | Jun 11, 2002 07:05am | #2

   Steven, sounds like you picked up a very good package.  If you're looking at a router lift, be prepared to spend some dough.  The Router Raizer is a modest $89 at Rockler http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/findprod.cfm?&DID=6&sku=6396

   The other lifts are twice as much or more.  I don't have the Raizer, but I've read that it is very satisfactory.  As far as tables go, there are thousands of opinions, including build your own which I'm sure will be suggested.  Bench Dog makes a great table which comes with an excellent fence.  The problem I've had when investigating tables and fences is that most of the time the people who make a good table don't make that great of a fence and vice versa.  Veritas also makes a fantastic table and fence.  The table top and fence will run you $239 plus shipping.  http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=42932&category=1,43885&ccurrency=2&SID=

   You might try going to Advanced Search at the top of the left-hand frame on your Knots page, type in "router table" and go down lower on the page and select "since the beginning of time" and see what other goodies you find.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   slm643 | Jun 11, 2002 07:36am | #3

   thanks, Forestgirl. may i ask what you have set up?

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 11, 2002 08:21am | #5

   You certainly may!  I have 2 routers, a Freud 3.5HP plunge router and a Porter Cable 9690 (1.5HP? I think) fixed-base router.  I just got the PC to replace an old Craftsman router I had that broke.  While saving $$ for a new router table (the Veritas is my choice), I'm using a table I put together to hang off the left side of my table saw.  It's made from the top of a small Black and Decker metal router table, from whence I removed the legs.  I've added wings to the little table, mounted it on a hinged 2x2, and it attaches to the left wing of my Jet contractor's saw.

   I may make a better table to hold the PC, and when I finally get the Veritas table, the Freud (which is a big, heavy brute) will mount easily into that table.  I'm pretty much a novice at routing too, so keep your eyes open for the older wiser members to put in their 2cents worth!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   JosephJohn32 | Jun 11, 2002 08:53am | #6

   The Freud 3.5 does sound like a brute.  Thats alot of power.  Probably able to gorge a 1" cove right out of a slab of Ebony with that dude."Hide not your talents, they were for use made. What's a sun-dial in the shade?"                

   - Benjamin Franklin

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 11, 2002 09:03am | #7

   Not sure I want to try :-) but I do have a slab of marble I've been eyeing lately.  Hmmmmm.  Actually, other than being a plunge router, it's ideal for a table use.  It can handle those big panel bits and such.  That's a ways off for moi though.  I'm starting small.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

3. 
   Alan | Jun 12, 2002 06:09am | #12

   SLM643,

   Sorry, but I've got to go with John--at least for the moment.  It's more than just learning to use the tool safely and efficiently first (though that too is a very good idea).  There's definitely a trend amongst us weekend wood warriors to acquire gadgets.  We see, we want, we buy--but without ever considering what we want it for in the first place.

   So I'm asking:  why do you think you need a router table?  What kind of work are you planning to do?  More specifically, what router operations are you planning to do that require a table?  If the honest answer is "I don't know" then you shouldn't get one--yet.

   I learned as a professional in a field based entirely on gadgets to buy only as the need arose.  As a woodworker I've applied the same principle.  I've saved myself roughly three or four million dollars--and there's actually room in the garage for two cars.

   Alan 

1. 
   slm643 | Jun 12, 2002 01:27pm | #13

   Hi Alan; I currently have an old kitchen table as a work support,or a couple of wooden saw horses. I thought that a router table would be better; ie height,stability, and vircitility(sp)... as far as the speisific operations you are right,I'm not sure!

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 12, 2002 06:36pm | #14

   You might want to hold off until you have an idea of what type of work you'll be doing.  Then again, there's a shortage of good used equipment out here, so if you buy something right away and have to replace it, you could sell it here on Knots!  :-))

   Seriously though, there are many good choices out there.  If you just want to get going with it, and not put too much $$ into your "first" table, pick up the Rockler.  Your router is light enough that it won't stress their insert, and it's an affordable, functional table.  I've already put in my 2-cents worth on the Veritas package, and Bench Dog.  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   slm643 | Jun 12, 2002 11:54pm | #16

   HI Forest Girl; I would love a new table and lift, workbench,scroll saw,and table saw and band saw! but that is dreaming! i will slow down and wait 3 or 4 weeks before i buy the router table & lift espeicaly after i found this site http://www.woodstore.woodmall.com they have downloadable tool reviews it's 5 bucks but i think it was worth it. i have the attachment for router lifts you might be interested in,here it is a adobe pdf file. i had to take the pdf file out but the web site is ok, look for toolreviews! steven

   Edited 6/12/2002 6:59:49 PM ET by SLM643

   
1. 
   sschefer | Jun 13, 2002 12:04am | #18

   SLM, you've got to delete that PDF. It's copyrighted material and not for distribution via this means. There is a statement on the cover sheet regarding this. If they find out you posted it here you could endup having to pay for it several times over. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.Steve - in Northern California

2. 
   slm643 | Jun 13, 2002 01:55am | #19

   OOP'S thanks. steve

3. 
   slm643 | Jun 13, 2002 02:01am | #20

   what did you think of the article, if you read it?

4. 
   hungrrrry | Jun 13, 2002 02:10am | #21

   I have a pic of a workbench for anyone to see....it is completely designed and made by myself for just $40.00....That DOES include the tail vise...I have about 12-15 hours in it (not including drying time of glue, stain and finish, lol). Enjoy!

   Edited 6/12/2002 7:11:37 PM ET by hungrrrry

5. 
   hungrrrry | Jun 13, 2002 02:13am | #22

   Sorry, I don't have this completely understood...not sure how to send a pic

6. 
   slm643 | Jun 13, 2002 03:22am | #23

   go to  "attach files" then browse to a "photo" file then "open" that file, then upload it it should not be to big of a file, not over 2mb. hope this helps steven

   
7. 
   hungrrrry | Jun 20, 2002 04:46am | #39

   Thanks steve!

   Barry

8. 
   sorethum1 | Jun 13, 2002 05:19pm | #26

   I'm still interested in that bench you mentioned.  I have a pretty good base, but would like to replace my top and add vises.  I'm thinking of going the solid core door route.  I've got a Pony 7"/9" vise ready to install. Todd

9. 
   hungrrrry | Jun 19, 2002 04:45am | #35

   Steve,

       Sorry I took a while to respond....I don't get on here often.

        Myself, I don't think a bench with a solid door top will be worth much unless you are doing light duty work or assembly or bolt it to a floor or wall!...This bench I have made is approximately 300lbs. and is a nice, rugged and sturdy piece. It is less than two months old and doesn't get treated much like a nice piece of furniture. It gets beat on, but I have no doubt it will last me a long time.

        I spent a few hours a night for eight days creating this piece and feel the time was well spent as well as the money. I designed the tail-vise one night and built it the next.

       Future plans will call for a shelf underneath for hand power tools, as well as a drawer for dogs, small clamps, etc. as well as another homemade vise for the front...I have the same vise you mentioned (Pony 7/9) on my assembly table and had thoughts of installing it on this bench, but I decided it looks better on a utility bench than my $40 workhorse. Besides, my vise not only looks better, but it is stronger and has a 12" gape....The front vise will be similar.

   Barry

   
10. 
    phil5045 | Jun 19, 2002 06:31am | #36

    Very nice job.

    weed

11. 
    sorethum1 | Jun 19, 2002 08:15pm | #37

    $40?!!!  You've got to tell me more.  Plans?  Materials?  the vice alone...  Really, I'd love to build one this nice, especially on that kind of budget.  Feel free to email me at [email protected].  Thanks, Todd (not steve).

12. 
    hungrrrry | Jun 20, 2002 03:51am | #38

    I'll send you some details soon....sorry, I saw a "steve" and it stuck in my head, heh!

    Barry

13. 
    sschefer | Jun 14, 2002 08:31pm | #27

    SLM, I wish I had read it but I instantly stopped when I saw the copyright. I thought it best to let you know as quickly as possible. Steve - in Northern California

14. 
    slm643 | Jun 15, 2002 01:38am | #28

    thanks Steve,I will pay more attention in the future.

2. 
   Alan | Jun 12, 2002 09:52pm | #15

   SLM,

   Sounds to me that your next tool purchase should be the one tool that is truly at the heart of a good workshop; the one tool that, now that I have one, I really wonder how I made anything without one.  A good workbench!

   I'm not kidding.  A good workbench--one with both a front vise, a shoulder vise, and two lines of dog holes, along with dogs and a couple of hold fasts--will be well worth it.

   I bought a Sloj...Pat, I'd like to buy a vowel!  (I'm not about to try to spell that name again--or pronounce it either.)  I modified the support system so I can easily knock it down to store it, as well as drag it around anywhere I might want to work.

   When I first got it I had the upstairs in a two family house.  I stored it in the hall downstairs.  When I had some woodwork to do I would take it out on the front porch.  That was great.  I could sit down on the porch bench to rest; and everyone who walked by (I lived on a fairly busy street) would stop to chat awhile.  But I digress.

   You can buy a very good bench for three hundred or so dollars.  You can make a good bench from scratch for considerably less.  Or you cna buy a good quality top--with or without vises, dog holes and such--and make it to suit yourself.

   Alan

1. 
   slm643 | Jun 12, 2002 11:59pm | #17

   Boy Alan it would be nice to have ten or fifteen thousand to start a nice workshop! but i have to start small. those are nice benches though! the lee valley bench tops look good too! have you ever glued something that big? steve.

1. 
   Alan | Jun 13, 2002 05:18am | #24

   Steve,

   Yes.  I've glued up things that big--lots of times--both before and after I got the bench.  It's a lot easier when you have the right tools.

   I see you're not taking very seriously my advice to get a good workbench first--even though it really is one of the most basic tools every woodworker should have.  You're apparently dead set on getting the router table, whether you actually need it or not.  Sigh....  Oh well, why should you be different for everyone else.

   Alan  (a confessed heretic and luddite)

2. 
   slm643 | Jun 13, 2002 06:07am | #25

   Alan, actualy i am: a veritas kit;299.00

   
2. 
   dhpascoe | Jun 21, 2002 12:02am | #40

   I think Alan has that exactly right. I've avoided the perfectly flat work bench for many years now, and I recently got to thinking how many projects that unflat table has screwed up. But an unflat router table will screw up just as many more. I made a new 10 foot table 8 months ago, but had to hurry it up and did not get it flat. It's now got a dip at one end, so I'm gonna bite the bullet and make it over again even if it takes me six months.

   Don't do it right the first time, you're sure to do it again......

4. 
   westpest | Jun 16, 2002 08:52am | #34

   Steve

   I have made my own table using a Routerazer and a Woodhaven insert with levelers, topped off with an Incra Intellifence and Ultrajig 24. Believe it or not the base is an old Photocopier (gutted of course) it is just the right height and the three paper trays make great storage. I would post a pic but I might get laughed at. So what it works perfectly..

   There is a web sight that explains in great detail the making of the top I have including the Routerraizer ( this is why I got one) the url is woodshopdemos.com I am sure you would find this site useful.  Dan