As is well-known, Lie-Nielsen makes a variety of planes — mostly based on old Stanley models — and other tools. So, to generate some undoubtedly interesting answers, here’s my question:
What tool or tools that Lie-Nielsen does not currently produce would you like to see them make, and why?
Replies
SWMBO's vote is for a manganese bronze saucier.
SAUCIER?Philip Marcou
Japanese-style pull saw, full size debarking draw knife, 1-1/2" wide chisel, coping saw.
Sauce pan.....my wife has a rather dry sense of humour....she figures that if I can have LN for the woodshop, she can have LN for the kitchen....
Tell her that ALL-Clad is for the Kitchen.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Actually, she has Calphalon -- that stuff is just about as expensive as LN, but it is the best cookware that either of us have ever used. Her "antique" cookware is a couple of old mid-70s vintage cast iron skillets that she inherited when she acquired me.....
All-Clad is considered better and is more expensive. And then there are the Le Creuset enamelled dutch ovens that have a price tag to match their weight1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Never tried the ALL-Clad. She's happy with the Calphalon -- please - don't give her any ideas!!! LOL
Le Creuset is out of the question -- it would thin the wallet to nano-thickness..... ;-)
My wife and I discovered Scanpan and haven't looked back. It's REALLY permanent non-stick made with titanium/ Big $$$ like L-N.
I'd like to see LN expand their line of handsaws to include a remake of the Disston #12 line.
I'd like to see:
1) Copy of the No. 50 small plow/beading plane. Improve the original design by adding a front knob similar to the 45, nickers that are infinitely adjustable in the depth dimension like the 10 1/2 Bench Rabbet plane that they make, a dedicated chamfering fence, and oh by the way, not asking for much, I know, but could you make it out of the "white bronze" material and steel, with rosewood or cherry "pistol grips" on the tote - thanks Mr. L-N!
2) Copy of the Record 778.
3) Copy of Sargent 61 router (I like the depth adjustment on the Sargent routers better than the Stanley ones.
4) Copy of the Record 043.
I'd rather see No.1 more than 2 through 4 combined and I agree that copying the Disston 12 would be pretty cool.
I'd like to see them make an infill smoother and panel plane, as I'm sure they both would be awesome.
I'd like to see them make a router plane with a better adjuster than the old 70, 70 1/2, or 71.
I'd also like to see their version of squares, and miter squares.
Jeff
> I'd like to see them make an infill smoother and panel plane <
That's my vote as well! A copy of an A5 or A6 for less than $US500 would just about tempt me! Right after I've made my Shephed version!
Mind you - the other infill makers are well into four figures, and some just about into five.
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Ummmmm.... I guess you haven't heard about this one....???
http://classichandtools.com/acatalog/_Norris__Style_Planes___Blades_2.html
Haven't laid eyes mych less paws on it, but from what I've heard it's not too bad...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Malcolm
Quite honestly, if they offered one around 1000 US, I'd buy it. I've had such great luck with every tool I've bought from them, that I wouldn't hesitate to trust the quality. The only tools they've ever made that anybody I know had any trouble with were their chisels, and they have apparently overcome some initial quality issues, according to some extremely overzealous threads here.
I've been eyeing the Ray Iles version at toolsforworkingwood.com for quite some time, now, and have been waiting to pull the proverbial trigger. I don't need it, I just WANT it.
I had an old Norris I got off ebay about 4 years ago, but it was pretty much a rusted old junker. I fixed it up as best I could and resold it. It was misrepresented (go figure!) as being tight mouthed (HAH!), and in "really good" shape. Not for a user.
I will be waiting to hear from you on the Shepherd, so let us all know, please.
Merry Christmas
Jeff
At $US1,000 want is way ahead of need!
Ray Iles makes adjustered smoothers in the Norris style for about that price (previous post).
Malcolm
Now that a half dozen or so people have contributed their wish lists, here's my wish list (some of these are duplicates of others already posted):
Infill smoother (#4 1/2 size +/-; out of manganese bronze; Norris-type adjuster nice but not required);
Infill panel plane (#5 1/2 size +/-; out of manganese bronze -- this would be a heavy beast; again, Norris-type adjuster nice but not required);
Infill mortise plane (#9 size +/-; out of manganese bronze; Norris-type adjuster);
Infill bronze shoulder planes -- like the current 1/2 inch -- in any of 5/8, 3/4, 7/8, 1, 1 1/8, or 1 1/4 inch sizes;
Small and large size router planes (#271 and #71 or #71 1/2 size)
A good bit brace.
Russell Jennings pattern auger bits (since these were made at least until the 1950s, there might be some patent problems here...I don't know...)
A good hand drill (egg beater style)
A copy of the #45 or #55 multi-purpose planes;
Dado planes;
Panel raising planes (skew-bladed, with nickers, right and left handed);
A good plow plane;
A set of hollow & round planes (never seen these done in metal before...could be really nice...)
A set of trammel points;
A nice circular plane (#20 or #113 style).
To all who have posted so far, thanks; great ideas!!
Edited 12/18/2005 2:47 pm ET by pzgren
James, quite a wishful list , that.
Tell us more about your expectations re the 41/2 type smoother-I have a hot line with Father Christmas in this hemisphere. Just check on the prices on that link that Midnight gave you, since F. Christmas Inc. here is quite a sharp organisation.....
Re the compass plane -you should be able to find a good old Stanley USA, but failing that there are still good new Record versions to be had (I mean prior to the accountantattack/structural reorganisation/Anant agreement).Philip Marcou
Philip, It IS quite a wish list, with emphasis on "wish" -- just tools that I think LN could produce high quality editions of. Can't honestly say that I have a use for every single one of tools that I listed right at this moment, but with a new project sometime in the future, that could change, and, besides, there are probably others out there that do....
I took a look at the prices there on the Ray Iles Norris-style reproductions. Very reasonable, and I've heard and read many good things about the quality of his planes. (Not quite Karl Holtey, but then again, you're not coughin' up Holtey dinero, either.....)
What I have in mind for the smoother and the panel planes: a nice thick, stress-relieved manganese bronze casting (or it could be dovetailed), say about 3/16 inch or 1/4 inch thick all 'round -- I'm looking for weight here (and mind you, I'm not a metallurgist, so my weight estimations could very well be WAY off.....in that case, a bit thinner casting or ductile iron would work fine to keep the weight on the heavy-but-reasonable side...): 6 to 8 lbs total (smoother) and 8 - 10 lbs (panel), or even a bit more, is fine with me; a choice of woods -- perhaps walnut, rosewood, cocobolo, maple, cherry, etc., (no intention to exclude anyone's favorite wood here!!) -- for the infill; closed tote on the back and traditional squared and tiered fore-knob on the front (ala Spiers & Norris panel planes); a thick iron (minimum of 3/16 inch thick) from the cryo-treated A-2 steel that LN currently uses; a Norris style adjuster would be nice, but not absolutely necessary -- if present, I would expect it to be silky smooth in its function; York pitch; a real tight mouth -- my conception is that this is a final finishing plane; and just for grins, perhaps a bit of nice engraving (of what -- I'm not sure....) on the lever cap, to make it "pretty". Obviously, precision machined (.0015" on the sole, etc.), lapped, polished, fitted, square, etc. to LN standards. In large part, the LN application of the kinds of improvements done to Stanley planes applied to a Spiers or Norris pattern infill. And, at a price point in line with the rest of LN's products. Not asking for too much am I? ;-)
Compass planes are regularly offered on eBay, and seem to go for fairly reasonable prices. Garrett-Wade used to offer the new-manufactured Record compass plane, but I'm not sure that they do anymore. At any rate, I don't have any immediate use for one, but it would be nice to have one in the plane arsenal for when I do need it....
Haven't seen your wish list here yet...!! :-)James
Edited 12/18/2005 9:03 pm ET by pzgren
In large part, the LN application of the kinds of improvements done to Stanley planes applied to a Spiers or Norris pattern infill. And, at a price point in line with the rest of LN's products. Not asking for too much am I? ;-)
I fear that your specification would kill such a project before it left an outline planning stage... the prob being building such a tool to a budget. Still.... it'd be nice.... ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Hi Mike,<<In large part, the LN application of the kinds of improvements done to Stanley planes applied to a Spiers or Norris pattern infill. And, at a price point in line with the rest of LN's products. Not asking for too much am I? ;-)I fear that your specification would kill such a project before it left an outline planning stage... the prob being building such a tool to a budget. Still.... it'd be nice.... ;)>> Could well be, but there may not be that much new or added: they already do stress-relieved castings and the machining thereupon. They make their own wood parts (admittedly mainly totes, front knobs, and chisel handles), and they make their own irons.
Not really knowing the ins & outs of production plane manufacturing, I could very well be missing some significant and important steps here, but I see that, in addition to the kinds of work they already do for their Stanley-pattern planes, they would have to design and cast/machine some new parts (particularly the Norris-type adjuster, if included, and a new style lever cap/cap screw), mill quite a bit more wood than required for a Stanley-pattern plane, and add some assembly steps (preparing the bed for the iron/adjuster, fitting the mouth, and drilling the holes/rivetting the infills in place, for example).
Built to a budget? -- obviously, but I suspect that it would be somewhat generous. My SWAG (and that's all it is) is that they could probably do a smoother for a retail price of around $500- $600, and a panel plane for about $750 +/-, once they got production going. Not really out of line on their own pricing (assuming that they can do them for approximately those prices) or that of what would become some of their closest competitors: A Ray Iles A5 is going for about 400 of Her Majesty's Pounds Sterling -- that's about $720 at 1 Pound = $1.80 -- a steel Shepherd finished (not the kit) Spiers #7 smoother is going for $500 or $600 (walnut or cocobolo infill, respectively), and a finished St James Bay is about $475, with adjuster.
(If we start talking about guys like Sauer & Steiner, or Geoff Entwhistle, or Karl Holtey, then the price, of course, goes WAAAAAAY up..... These guys are essentially hand-making custom tools -- real nice ones -- but, in reality, we're talking about two entirely different classes of tools...)
If the comments in this thread are representative of the woodworking population in general (or at least that part of it that is inclined to buy high(er) quality tools), then there appears to be a ready market for a LN infill, were they to make them. I know I'd be real interested.
Cheers!James
Not really knowing the ins & outs of production plane manufacturing, I could very well be missing some significant and important steps here
Given L-N's established process with metal-working, I doubt any of the steel / bronze components would present too much difficulty; the crux of the success or failure of the infill being in the quality and stability of the wood used to stuff the plane.
David Charlesworth encountered that happens when a manufacturer gets the stock selection slightly wrong; wood shrinkage directly affected the angle that the blade was bedded at while simultaneously compromising how well the blade bedded. Finding stock that's suitably stable would be the main prob in such an endeavor..Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
> crux of the success or failure of the infill being in the quality and stability of the wood used to stuff the plane <
Well-made infills solve this problem by sleeving the holes that contain the pins that hold the stuffing in place ... if that makes sense! It doesn't matter if the wood moves, the sleeves are inflexible and all you get, if you get anything at all, is a gap!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
" ... and just for grins, perhaps a bit of nice engraving (of what -- I'm not sure....) on the lever cap, to make it "pretty"."
I've been thinking about this. If handmade tools are workshop jewellery, then some decoration would indeed be nice. Think antique weapons. Not just engraved, but shaped and carved.
I wondered about decorating my recently-made block plane, but don't have the skills to undertake anything worthwhile (nor, I have to admit, much of an idea about what). I may be a craftsman, but I aint no artist!
Any ideas? Any illustrations? What about borrowing a few concepts from weapons - old and new?
Malcolm http://www.macpherson.co.nz
My inclination -- personal taste -- is toward Baroque ornamentation: acanthus leaves, scrolls, gargoyles, that sort of thing. Much like the antique weapons engraving decoration you mentioned.
LN's logo is very recognizable, but also very plain. I was thinking their logo engraved on the lever cap, and perhaps surrounded by a wreath or by some scroll work; something to give it a "special edition" kind of character.
Since they would probably be casting the lever cap, any decoration could be molded right into the casting; no engraving required.
Any decoration would just be icing on the cake.....
Don't know about the more florid acanthus leaves type of decoration (applied rather than incised), but I was wondering about what I see described as 'machine turned' decoration. You see it at its best in jewellery and effects like snuff boxes - the Russians were very good at it. Fine patterns of inscribed veining or grooving, sometomes with coloured enamelling. I like it sir!
There's a whole topic to explore here! Look at the etched Damascus steel of the plane in the latest FWW tools issue (there's a neat explanantion of the process on the maker's web site).
A lot of us who use tools recreationally (and even the toughest house-framing pro likes to play from time to time) buy tools that we like, much more thsn need. And I think we're buying style and brand as much as we buy function.
If that's true, then the next step is turning fine tools into fine art!
Malcolm
Edit: if you want to see what un-decorated fine art tooling can look like, ask Philip Marcou to email you a copy of his latest creation - he's as good as anyone else making tools anywhere in the world, in my view, and creating truely beautiful objects!
http://www.macpherson.co.nz
Edited 12/20/2005 2:43 pm ET by Malcolm
Malcolm,
<<If that's true, then the next step is turning fine tools into fine art!>>
That would really be a return to tradition, in my view. If you look at 17./18./19. century tools, many of them were decorated, some by the maker, and others by the owner(s). A lot of them were very nicely done, often by someone with a high degree of skill. Even Stanley did some pretty nice cast Victorian scroll work decoration on the handles and other parts of some of their early 45/55-type planes.
<<And I think we're buying style and brand as much as we buy function.>>
I agree with you that it is part of the tool-buying equation. It wouldn't add anything to the functionality of the tool, but I think that a return to a less utilitarian outlook would certainly add to the pleasure of using a tool. After all, who wants to use an ugly tool? (That's NOT to say that LN's tools are ugly, they aren't, but they do have a kind of modern starkness to them.) Even something like the cast-in incised decoration on the old Preston spokeshaves would be nice.
It is similar to the evolution of furniture styles: we have gone from the highly (some would say overly) ornate style of Baroque/Rococco to various nations' country-style furniture, to Shaker here in the US, to the Arts & Crafts and Mission styles, to Scandinavian modern. (I know many styles were left out: there was no intention to cover ALL of them, just enough of a sample of them to illustrate the point.)
<<Edit: if you want to see what un-decorated fine art tooling can look like, ask Philip Marcou to email you a copy of his latest creation - he's as good as anyone else making tools anywhere in the world, in my view, and creating truely beautiful objects!>>
I've seen one of his planes (the one with the silver engraved name plate) -- don't know if it's his latest -- and I agree with you, he does beautiful work!!!
James
I've been asking Lie-Nielsen for a short throw Frey pattern brace with a Spofford chuck. I've only seen one with a 3 1/2" throw, the smallest Frey made, and was lucky enough to buy it cheap. You'll find lots of braces with more gimmicks but none that give better feed back. Center bits, shell augers and gimlet bits to go with it would be great.
Thomas Lie-Nielsen knows the tools I most want to see out soon and they're working on them. We bought the whole first test run. In full production tomorrow would be soon enough for me.
Hi Larry,
Can you explain what "a short throw Frey pattern brace with a Spofford chuck" is, post a photograph, or both?
Thanks,-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
John S. Frey was a brace maker and his braces were pretty refined. A Spofford chuck is a simple chuck that closes with a wing nut. Frey's spofford brace is, as far as I know, the best of the braces with a spofford chuck. It's a light low mass brace; no gimmicks, just a pure tool that doesn't have all the mass that keeps one from feeling what's going on in even the most delicate situations. It's also strong enough to handle heavy work. The one pictured at the link is Frey's smallest with a 7" swing--the handle has a 3 1/2" off-set. Also pictured top to bottom are a shell auger, center bit and gimlet bit. http://www.planemaker.com/misc/brace.jpg
Thanks for the illuminating response; I love learning new things! Thanks!-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I would like to see them do a copy of the stanley #020 compass plane.
Troy
Molding planes, panel raiser planes, plough planes, straight edges, veneering tools, carving tools, striking knives, layout tools, marking and cutting gauges, instrument makers planes, infill planes, panel saws. skewed smoother and scraper planes, honing guide, Putty knife (might actually be able to afford one).
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I was told a few years ago that L-N was working on a 289. Not a real high priority, because the casting would make it rather expensive, so he didn't expect it to be a big seller. Don't know if they're still working it, or if it's been dropped.
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