Replies

1. 
   WillGeorge | May 27, 2005 09:08pm | #1

   BEN!  Get rid of ALL the fancy stuff on the Home page..

   Up front.. (Not everybody has Broadband) Have a box to click for fancy or just text!

   I have broadband...

2. 
   EdHarrison | May 27, 2005 09:26pm | #2

   Thank you, thank you, thank you. Much better than it was. To my very small vantagepoint looking up at the galaxy of handtool woodworking, your site is one of the most important ones out there. But it used to be confusing and take forever to load. Much better now. I fully intend to start building those infill planes from kit as soon as the list of things I've procrastinated on gets down to a slim, manageable three or four pages. Don't go out of business before I have a chance to start! (kidding) Thanks again. Ed

1. 
   benknebel | May 30, 2005 03:11pm | #4

   Hi Ed;

   Thank you for your comments--much appreciated.

   Best Regards

   Ben

1. 
   WillGeorge | May 31, 2005 08:40pm | #5

   Mississippi!  I love that word  First long word I learnt to spells!

3. 
   mapleman | May 28, 2005 07:03am | #3

   Nice planes, Ben. I must say they are quite a bit out of my league, price wise, though. I would have a tough time trying to decide between a 14" bandsaw and 6" jointer or 2 of your planes.

   Birds

1. 
   benknebel | Jun 01, 2005 03:20pm | #6

   How about 5 all at once?

   To see the latest go to:

   http://www.shepherdtool.com/fantastic_shoulder_plane_kit_sal.htm

   Best regards

   Ben

1. 
   benknebel | Jun 06, 2005 03:08pm | #7

   Just added something new.

   http://www.shepherdtool.com/contest.htm

   Just to have a little fun.

   Best regards

   Ben

4. 
   jazzdogg | Jun 06, 2005 07:20pm | #8

   Hi Ben,

   I use a DSL connection, so your graphics aren't an issue with respect to download time; I just hate all of the fireworks and moving icons:

   maybe it's because they remind me of those annoying pop-up ads;
   maybe it's because they're superfluous;
   maybe it's because they're distracting;
   maybe it's because they seem like the kinds of bells & whistles that kids add when they first realize their computer has lots and lots of superficial content that clutters presentations without adding real value.

   My $ 0.02,

   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 07, 2005 03:27am | #10

   Ben.. I agree with Jazzdogg.. To distracting for a business..

   No hate here.. Just me...

   OK for your own stuff but to me Business should be Business..

2. 
   benknebel | Jun 07, 2005 05:36am | #11

   Hello Jazzdogg;

   I do agree about the pop-ups--I hate them too--which is why I don't use them. However I have to point out that they are exceedingly effective marketing tools---otherwise marketers would stop using them--the fact is, as much as we might not like it they work and will continue to be used until they stop working.

   Now--moving graphics and icons and fireworks and the like--they are very effective methods of drawing the eye to specific things you want a customer to take note of--in my case a sale I have running and a contest---too easily overlooked on a plain text site. Indeed these have been so effective that traffic to my site has increased 5 fold and sales volume has doubled in the last 14 days alone. Were I a B2B site I wouldn't use them but as I am a B2C site I will because they do work to increase traffic and sales.

   If print advertisers could put moving images on a magazine page they would--that day is coming BTW. What they have done is put in those gawd awful scratch and sniff ads which so many people say they hate--I do too--but you know what, when they started doing that sales volumes increased dramatically. When they stop working you won't see any smelly ads anymore.

   In any media campaign you try to draw attention to what you would like a customer to see and react to-- moving graphics do that--you know why?--it's much like TV and people like to watch moving images--you might not--but many do.

   All that being said I do appreciate your input--however--your last comment was unkind---many many--high throughput-high traffic-high sales sites use animations of various sorts on their sites to great effect and many of those are woodworking companies. They should be used sparingly but their use is effective.

   BTW--If this stuff bothers you so much--you can go into the advanced settings on your browser (if it's a good one) and under a function called multimedia or something like that you can turn off animations, sounds , videos etc . When you do this it becomes your choice as to whether to play the stuff or not. Indeed for those folks that only have a 56k connection it might be an idea to do this--they'll find their web pages load faster as they won't be loading images and graphic and sound files--they can then chose to see and hear what they want to see and hear.

   PS-BTW--in case you think I'm talking through my hat I was a professional marketing and sales manager for a goodly length of time prior to getting into toolmaking--a successful one--bringing in several hundreds of millions in business to the companies I worked for.

   Kindest regards

   Ben

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jun 07, 2005 06:15am | #14

   Hi Ben,

   I appreciate your point of view, and despite the fact that I spent 30-odd years as CFO of multi-million-dollar companies and understand the business concepts thoroughly, I still detest many sales, marketing, and merchandising tactics that I consider blatantly manipulative and essentially anti-customer. Whether some of these tactics are effective in increasing marketing hits or sales is largely irrelevant to me as a consumer.

   Today, stores routinely and deliberately disorganize merchandise so we will be forced to go through the mazes of their devising, hopefully noticing new products and making impulse purchases as we cleave to the remote possibility of eventual escape. It may "work"  but it sure turns me off.

   As to changing my browser settings, I'll pass: I simply refuse to revisit annoying sites unless their products or services are both unique and compelling.

   Many of the liberties taken with honesty in the name of commercial persuasion are deplorable in my opinion (I am not suggesting you engage in these practices); that they are effective makes them no less objectionable to me.

   Please believe me: I don't intend any of my comments as a dig toward you or your company. When I saw your presentation in San Diego, I was impressed by your products - they stand on their own merits. 

   I am simply fed up with the cynical and crass manipulation foisted on the public by so many contemporary organizations in an effort to sell stuff. I guess I'm just one of those dinosaurs who likes things simple, honest, straightforward, and unembellished.

    

   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

   Edited 6/6/2005 11:19 pm ET by jazzdogg

   Edited 6/6/2005 11:21 pm ET by jazzdogg

1. 
   benknebel | Jun 07, 2005 07:33am | #15

   I agree with you --many tactics are deplorable and I won't use them--not because I don't know how--I do--but there are some things that are just not right. The internet - because of it's ease of use and low cost of entry has become a textbook of every shady practise possible--some of  it downright ugly.

   Spam is a good example--direct advertising run amock--I filter everything and block almost everything.

   I'm sure we've all been to sites with popups that won't go away or when you click on OK or No to get out of it you go somewhere else or set up a falling train of countinuous popups or trigger a spamming campaign.

   Ever been to a site where the back button on your browser only takes you back to the same site over and over and over again.

   Or where you get mail you don't want and hit the Remove me button and it brings you more spam--hitting remove me verifies that your address is legitimate with a real person behind it and the one original e-mail becomes dozens.

   Your point about the stores is a good example of marketters gone astray--all the Big Box stores do it and their analysis engines are so good now they can tell you --by placement height on a shelf and by store floor section and time of day and time of year exactly--within 3 %-- of what they will sell of any particular item at any given time--that includes knowing exactly what route people will take to get to certain items and what to put in thier way to trigger the impulse buy.

   But you know we do a lot of this to ourselves--we're supposed to be rational adults but as long as we respond to these tactics by buying the marketters will continue to do what works-- and what drives the marketers--the demand -again from us,this time as shareholders, to  increase profits and market share. If you step back from it all they are giving us what we want--we tell them that every day--by buying what they sell.

   Best regards

   Ben

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jun 07, 2005 08:19am | #16

   "we tell them that every day--by buying what they sell."

   Ben,

   I would add, refuse to: buy, tolerate, sanction, reward, glorify, or emulate.

   Based upon the points you make, I infer we agree far more than we disagree.  I attempt to live a life that's congruent with the values I profess, and it is a daily test of beliefs and ethics; juggling long- and short-term goals and rewards.

   When I offer a "complaint" to an organization, I attempt to do so by giving unvarnished feedback; it's up to all concerned to make choices and accept consequences. I understand the value of a lifetime customer, and genuinely hope to patronize organizations that share the kind of values to which I ascribe significant value.

   I wish you well in your endeavors, and offer the attached in the spirit of sawdust,

    -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

   
5. 
   tms | Jun 07, 2005 01:12am | #9

   Hey Ben,

   Beautiful planes! I know what URL hint to drop before Christmas, this year.

   I know you didn't post your URL so that we could criticize your HTML skills but I have to agree with the previous posters that the moving text and graphics are distracting at best, and reminiscent of annoying pop ups, at worst.

   One more thing, if you insist on audio content on your site, you would be well advised to put a prominent "OFF" switch on the page. For those of us who need our audio levels up for alarms, but still work in an office environment, audio sites, that you can't shut off, just don't get visited more than once.

   Tom

1. 
   benknebel | Jun 07, 2005 05:45am | #12

   Hi Tom;

   See my reply to Jazzdogg but might I suggest that you can go into your browser and shut off sound generation by going into advanced options and under multimedia tell it not to play sounds in web pages--that way you won't get any sounds you don't want. If the alarms you need to hear are being generated by programs that run outside your browser turning off sounds for web pages shouldn't effect those you need to hear.

   Kindest regards

   Ben

1. 
   tms | Jun 07, 2005 05:59am | #13

   Hey Ben,Sorry, I guess we piled it on a bit. Thanks for the suggestion re. browser preferences. I never bothered to consider that before.Tom