I’m a newbie and could use a little direction. I’m reading through “Working with Wood” by Peter Korn. It seems to be a good place to start because it descibes some basic techniques. I’m planning on working through all the projects…
One thing I noticed is he describes a technique using both hand tools and power tools. The first project is milling a board four square. I guess my big question is should I go down the path of using hand tools or power tools? I’m leaning toward hand tools. (Which is why I posted here rather than one of the other folders.)
Part of the reason I ask this question is I have a limited budget. If I go down the power tools path I’ll be buying a jointer and planer just to mill a rough sawn board four square. On the other hand if I go down the handtools path I’ll be getting a scrub plane, a 14″ jack plane and a 24″ jointer plane. The planes will be a bit less. (I think.)
I’m a hobbyist woodworker. I’d like to buy tools that will last without spending my kids college fund on them. Any pointers on brands of planes and chisels would be a big help.
Oh, and I do know to buy only the items I need, as I need them, rather than trying to buy a whole shop at once. (buy buying one or two tools at a time you can buy better ones and spread out the cost.)
Replies
Hand tools are not only functional but can be enjoyable as well. There's not a free lunch however....there's a steep learning curve about how to sharpen, adjust, and use them properly. They also require alot more elbow grease, plus they may not be as cheap as you might think.
There are always methods to keep costs low regardless of which path you choose. Used is one of the best ways to stretch your dollar. Not only can you get good tools for less money, but the depreciation has already occurred so you won't lose much if you resell. Ebay, local classifieds, and the free classifieds on wwing websites are all places to find good values.
Even though not many regard Harbor Freight power tools as top notch, there are many who have found their basic 6" jointer for ~ $180 to be very functional. My Grizzly jointer comes from the same plant as the GI, Jet, Sunhill, Bridgewood, Woodtek and others, but will cost closer to $400.
A basic 12" thickness planer is likely to run ~ $200 for the Delta Shopmaster TP300, and ~ $250 for the Ryobi. Several more choices open up in the $300 range.
Sales & closeouts, etc., can also stretch your dollar. If you manage to be at the right place at the right time you can save hundreds. Within the past 12 months I upgraded my planer to a Delta 22-580 for $229, and my TS to a Craftsman 22124 for $594....both tools I wasn't looking to replace, but couldn't pass up the incredible savings. I sold my Delta 22-560 for $140, and my GI 50-185 w/router table for $525....someone got a nice deal on both tools. You also might find you can sell some other items to raise cash for tools...books, coins, exercise equipment, car parts, odds 'n ends....I've done just that to take the edge off and reduce the need for fresh cash. Comparing prices online helps give you an idea of what items go for so you'll know the huge bargains when they hit.
Be patient and good luck!
Edited 8/9/2005 3:48 pm ET by knot scott
Edited 8/9/2005 3:50 pm ET by knot scott
I'm not looking to cheap out. I guess what I'm really asking is am I going to be sorry if I focus on hand tools rather than power tools? i.e. planes and chisels rather than jointers, surface planers, etc.
I think it's really a matter of preference and only you can determine what's right for you, but as Walker1 pointed out there are some practical considerations for the "neanderthal" tools. Personally, I'm kind of a power tool junkie but have begun to appreciate handtools as I progress. The power tools were an immediate attraction. I'll never forget the early thrill of just plowing boards through the thickness planer just to see them come out the other end all smooth. It felt like a skill, but we all know better! ...very gentle learning curve with that tool. A neighbor passing by asked what I was making, and the honest answer was "sawdust"!
Thanks, guys. That is just the information I'm looking for.
A good way to address your problem would be to take wood working courses at a local art school/community college. You will get good instruction, safety lessons, sharpening skills and the use of the shop with its tools- hand and power. Adult ed at local high schools is also available.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,Taking classes at the local technical school would be the smart thing to do. Trouble is, I'm not that smart. ;) I'm going to jump in with both feet, and make lots of mistakes, and create a lot of junk that will end up at the dump; but I'm also doing a lot of reading: "Taye Frig Teaches Woodworking", "Working with Wood", etc., so hopefully I won't make too much junk.I'm actually approaching woodworking from two directions. The first is I have some door frames that need to be rebuilt. They were not installed proppertly and are starting to rot. The door itself is fine; I just need to replace the frame.The second is my wife has grand ideas of me building fancy furniture for the house. She is already designing china cabinets, computer desks, floor to ceiling bookcases, etc.So one the one hand, I'm planning on doing finsih carpentry; and on the other, fine furniture making...
Good luck,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Baldmoutain,
That deserves an 'Atta-boy'...full steam ahead, damn the torpedo's, four sheets to the wind and screaming for more sail...lol. When I started out I wanted to build two cherry corner cabinets for the dining room. The wood alone (solids and veneers) would cost $1000...I still haven't built them...not good enough yet, altough I have several thousand invested in tools.
The reality is you need both IMHO. I hand plane rough lumber to get it flat(scrub,#5,#7) ...but only on one side...the planer makes both sides parrallel..developing the skill to get both sides flat and parrallel..I don't have enough time. This is a huge discipline requiring skills, techniques and knowledge..you have to be realistic about how much you can master all that is involved.
My conclusion, after 3-4 years, is power tools help mitigate my lack of skills, however, they have their limitations and you need the handtools after the power tools to refine and achieve quality. So once out the planer I still need to #7, scrape and fix the tearout.
As a fellow weekend WWer I can tell you this. Hand tooling wood for projects, I'm sure can be very rewarding and satisfying, if your retired, or single and your time is your own. But if you are a working man with a growing family. It,s probably not realistic. The time that goes into learning the technics, learning to care for, and maintain the tools, and actually dimensioning lumber by hand, is considerable. And like Knott Scott said ,good quality tools for this type of work are surprisingly expensive.
I'd say shop around for good deals on the machines you need, that way you will have time for your hobby and your family.
Cheers. Walker1
When I started out, I didn't have a shop that accomodate the machines, so I used hand tools. I now have the flexibility to use either depending upon the task or project at hand. There are many ways to skin most woodworking cats and mostly the differences are the time it will take, the skill it requires, or the sucnk cost to reacht the same result. Hand prepping/thicknessing rough stock to dimension is sweaty work for a project of any significant size (it might be fine for a keepsake box, but a lot more work for a dresser as one might expect.
A jigsaw (like a 14" model with a riser block) and a planer (like a lunch box 12-13" type), with a little help from a sled for the planer and a jack and jointer plane might be a good comprimise. Heck, if you have a decent well-tuned table saw with a glue line rip capable blade, you can essentially joint edges on that. Or a router for that matter. Lots of ways to go here depending on your $$, time, and the type of projects you want to make.
As far as the cost of planes, I recommend contacting someone like Patrick Leach (http://www.supertool.com) and telling him you want good clean users. Fettle them up and replace the blade with Lie-Nielsen Stanley replacements if you can. You should be able to get all three - scrub, jack, and jointer for a few hundred I'd guess, add another hundred for the new blades.
Oh, and no matter what you get - power or hand, you're gonna need chisels. If you've got the buchs, bite the bullet and get the Lie-Nielsen set for $250.
Well, I learned one lesson today. Home Depot is NOT the place to go shopping for hand tools. All I came out with is was a Lufkin folding rule. (Recommended by "Working in Wood") Everything else was junk.
I guess part of the quest is finding a good source for tools you can look at and handle a bit before you buy.
Another good source for basic handtool info is the book "Handtools, their ways and workings" by Aldren Watson. You can get it at Amazon among other places. Plenty fo the Taunton Books are great too, by the way.
Where do you live? perhaps some members can steer you to some likely places. For example, if you lived in Atlanta, Highland Hardware would be a great place to go. If you live somewhaer without specialty wood worker stores like Woodcraft or the like, hand tools are likely best found at estate sales, auctions, flea markets, and antique stores.
If the handling part were not so important to you, the Internet (including eBay) is a rich source for finding excellent new and used hand tools.
I use both, and frankly, there's almost always a best tool for the job. Sometimes it's a hand tool and other times its a power tool. So, I suggest not limiting yourself to one category of tools. But if you're determined to go one way or the other, I'd consider a couple things:
1) What are you after? Getting lots of projects "done", or satisfaction from the work. If it's the former, then powertools are almost always the faster route to completion (when a powertool will do the job, of course.) If it's the woodworking itself you're interested in, I think handtools do a lot to add to the experience.
2) You can do about anything w/ a handtool, but you can't do everything w/ a powertool. A good example would be beading the front of a curved part (like an arched face frame). This has to be one w/ a hand tool. A router will do the inside edge, but can't follow the curve on the face... a scratch stock is the way to go in this example.
3) How much room do you have? Power tools take up a lot more room in my shop than the handtools, but I probably have more handtools. Just something to consider.
4) A lot of folks like to woodwork, but aren't a big fan of powertool noise. Sometimes the noise is annoying, but like I said, there's almost always a best tool for the job and that usually drives my decision on what to use.
Hope this helps...
TPZ
TPZ,I think your right. As I start planning projects I'm figuring out that in some cases a power tool would be better and in others an hand tool. The home repair carpentry kinds of projects need to get done quickly so my wife doesn't get upset, but furniture projects can go slow since there is nothing waiting on them to get done.Thanks for the help!
If you are like me, you will find that many projects can use a balanced combination of power and hand tools. Crosscutting, ripping, basic milling of stock, hogging out most of a mortise can all be done with power, then use the hand tools to bring the stock to final dimension and ready for finishing (planes and scrapers) or chisel out the waste from the mortise. This gets the furniture done in a reasonable amount of time while you learn the use of hand tools. As has been stated above hand tools have a steep learning curve from what to use for a particular job to how to maintain them and the time it takes to sharpen them. Good hand tools are not inexpensive - a set of planes to flatten and joint boards can cost as much if not more thana good 6" or decent 8" power jointer.
I really do not count the cost of sharening supplies and equipment as belonging to either side, as even if you are primarily a power tool junkie, you will still have need of some hand tools - notably chisels and at least a block plane and will therefore need equipment and supplies to keep them sharpened.
The quick and dirty rough made bench or stool (need it in an hour hon). and such get done with off the top of the plans and power tools. The better furniture (mission/shaker coffee table and sideboard out of QS Oak or Cherry please hon) use the combination of tools I mentioned at the start. I love working with wood and I am a Jigaholic as well, But I admit I do not have the patience (and get frustrated at my slow hand tool learning progress) or money to master all of the hand tool skills I need/want. I also have other interests like cooking (i am the one who cooks 90% of the time) and gardening that I like as well as wanting time with the family - so the amount of free time available is limited.
In the end, as with much else, it comes down to personal perferances, time you have available and your skill level as much as it is about greenback availability.
Whichever route you take, make sure to get the best tools you can afford - even if it means postponing a purchase a little bit to get the cash You do not need ultra high end tools, but stay away from cheap tools as well unless they almost definetly one or two timers and the rental cost is more than 2/3 the cost of the cheap buy price ( I have a number of tools like that - over 8-10 years, I may have used them 2-3 times, but by the end of the second use I saved money over renting the item.)1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
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