Replies

1. 
   BG | Nov 17, 2005 03:23pm | #1

   bonecrusher,
   I have a similar basement shop issue with oil burning, cast iron furnace . Each year I have it cleaned and watch very carefully as the filter gets cleaned to see how much dust has affected its performance..it's not insignificant. Each year I stratagize with the repairman various solutions...the best solution would incorporate additional filtering of the air and a seperate air source to feed the flame. Building a box of sorts with filters and running a seperate 4-6" pipe with a fresh air source would help greatly.
   I really don't worry about dust exploding in the shop...I manage the amount of dust being generated at any one time...sometimes moving the planer outside if need be...

2. 
   DennisS | Nov 17, 2005 06:25pm | #2

   Bone -

   You don't want to totally enclose your furnace and hot water heater (unless the water heater is electric) - they need combustion air at the very minimum plus some circulation to vent away any fumes that may accumulate.

   I worked for several years with a natural gas furnace and water heater in the same space, a two car garage with no problem. Although I wasn't spraying any volatile finishes whatsoever unless I had the double door of the garage open for ventilation. Your biggest concern, I think, is more the buildup of dust and such on the equipment itself. If you isolate them in their own space be sure to provide outside air for cumbustion. Otherwise you'll affect the efficiency of the burners.

3. 
   whoover | Nov 21, 2005 10:47pm | #3

   Bonecrusher,

   I suspect that the biggest hazard is not the dust but the ignition of flamable fumes and vapors from the products we usually use in our shops.  Some of these are particularly dangerious in that they are heavier than air and thus accumulate near the floor which is exactly where the flame on your water heater is. 

    

   I strongly recommend that you purchase a gas water heater that has been manufcatured after July 1, 2003 so that it is Flamable Vapor Ignition Resistant.  This will significantly reduce your risk but I would still be very hesitent to use solvent based products in my shop.  In fact, I have such a heater in my shop and use solvents sparingly. 

    

   Bill

    

4. 
   stephengaal | Dec 07, 2005 08:08pm | #4

   Bonecrsudher:

   My shop is a 24X40' stand-alone building with an oil-fired furnace in a corner with a single hot air vent at the top.

   It sits about 8 feet away from my WoodRat which puts out a lot of dust and chips at times.

   Five years, no problems.

   Stephen J. Gaal

    

    

5. 
   GRW | Dec 15, 2005 03:45pm | #5

   Bonecrusher

   My brother in law (a Master Plummer with about 25 years in his field) told me not to locate my shop  near my furnace. I think what he was saying was don't put the furnace in the shop.  I don't know your layout or restrictions, but if you can partition it off so that maintenance can be preformed, and combustion air can be obtained, but dust, and vapors are reduced I would try that. Many newer furnaces draw outside air for combustion. This might help.

1. 
   Bonecrusher | Dec 15, 2005 06:23pm | #6

   Thanks everyone for your feedback. Since my original post I've decided to scrap the basment workshop and build a separate, detached shop. Please visit this link if you'd like to see the first draft of the plan:http://www.woodworking.org/InfoExchange/viewtopic.php?t=5988

1. 
   GRW | Dec 15, 2005 08:03pm | #7

   Bone,

   Nice plan. I wish I could do the same. You asked for input on your web site..Here it is..  I visited a shop ( a 3 or 4 man full time shop) that was built in a 2 story hillside barn. One of the things they did was put all the dust collection in the 1st floor, and they operated out of the 2nd floor.(They had a ground level entry  to the 2nd floor do to the hillside) They didn't have to listen to the dust colector, and gravity aided the draw of the dust collectors, and saved space. Even the downdraft sanding table sent the dust between the floor joist to the lower level. I loved the idea, and hope to use it myself in my next shop, which should be in about 6 to 8 years.

2. 
   DWVikFan58 | Dec 19, 2005 06:47pm | #8

   Bone:

   This looks similar to what I'm wanting to build, including the vaulted ceilings, etc.  If you don't mind me asking, what is the ballpark $$, including permits, electrical, etc.   Based on my lot restrictions, my shop will probably be limited to 20'x32', but I plan on 10' vaulted ceilings.

   thanx for any info.

    

1. 
   Bonecrusher | Dec 19, 2005 10:09pm | #9

   I have no idea how much it'll cost. I'm just in the preliminary staging of planning the shop and I want to get it as close as possible to the final dimensions until I start getting some bids. I'll probably have someone put up the shell and then do the interior myself. I'm actually considering reducing the width to 20'. Not really because of cost considerations but because of aesthetics. This will be visible from the street so it needs to go with our house. I know the mantra in these boards is "bigger is better" but could I get some feedback from the group on 20' vs. 24' width. Will it make THAT much of a difference? The length will be 36'. Keep in mind as well that I'm a weekend woodworker. This is not my business. I'll probably be in the shop 10-15 hours a week.

1. 
   DWVikFan58 | Dec 19, 2005 11:05pm | #10

   Well, I think all of us would relish a shop that was as big as possible.  I think that 20'x32' is a good size, and I could probably get away with less, however, I have a bunch of lumber (1200 board feet) that I need room for.   My garage is 24'x24', and with a motorcycle, freezer, and other odds and ends that don't belong in a shop, it's tight.  My other option is to a build a small building to not only house my garden stuff (I have a 10'x10' garden shed), but also my lumber and other garage items, and just rearrange the garage to be more effective.   However, my wife has hinted at me building a shop so the garage could be a garage :)

   Good Luck!

2. 
   BrianF | Dec 20, 2005 03:25am | #11

   I think you should be fine at that size. I have been working full time building custom furn. and cabinetry in a 25 x 25 space for about 9 years now. It is not the most efficient but for a weekend woodworker it should be great. I had the advantage of being attached to my garage with double doors and could move stuff into the garage if I needed more room, especially during finishing. That was mostly when doing full house sets of cabinets. If you are not planning on projects of that magnitude you will be fine.

3. 
   highfigh | Jan 01, 2006 07:35pm | #14

   Consider the dimensions of the building materials you'll be using. If you use 4'x8' sheets, 24'x32' will require less time and materials than 25'x 29' or any other non-modular size. If you can design it so there is very little cutting to length or width, it'll cut your costs considerably.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

2. 
   DougF | Dec 21, 2005 10:28pm | #13

   Mine is 20 x 35 metal building, finished and insulated walls  and ceiling, 12 4-tube light fixtures, 3-220 20A, 1-220 40A and 4-110 15A circuits, 20 - duplex wall and ceiling outlets, 7 windows, 1- 6'0 double door, single car insulated roll-up garage door and a 3' entry door.  I sub'ed the pad, building, electrical,  tapping and texturing the walls and ceiling.  Total cost was between $19 - $20 per foot.  No permit costs.

   Doug

   Edited 12/22/2005 10:38 am by DougF

3. 
   ebergh | Dec 20, 2005 08:53am | #12

   Nice drawing of your planned shop! I didn't catch what type of woodworking you plan to do in there... if it entails much work with plywood, etc you might want to consider turning your tablesaw around so that it faces into the shop, with the outfeed going out over your auxiliary table. Moving the saw a bit farther into the room might help too for when you are working with wide pieces that need to be crosscut. Having the outfeed inside the shop will save you from having to muscle the full size plywood around to the middle of the shop before cutting it, you will be able to pull it off the truck or out of the rack and onto the saw and cut directly. Your aux table will make a great outfeed table too! If you could increase the size of the doorway it would probably help clearances around the saw too.My unisaw is @ 3' in from the doorway and it has worked out quite well. The opening is 12' with 2 overlapping sliding doors, so I do have lots of clearance, but 8' would be fine. Don't think 6' would be enough though. On your lathe, how about a high, transom-style window? Just don't put one down low... bowls DO fly apart sometimes! HTH, -eb

4. 
   QCInspector | Jan 02, 2006 09:29am | #15

   I'll just say that you were going to crave that hundred and 144 ft.² that you're giving up if you make the shop 20 feet wide. That space is equal to what you've allotted for your finishing room and dust collector/air compressor room combined. If your shop plan was to scale then you're giving up the space on one side of your table saw to walk around, down the length of your shop. So my vote is for the 24 x 36 foot shop, and I will also suggest that if you can legally do it. Extend your roof out over your doors 8 to 12 feet so that you have a place to work outside that is sheltered. I know that a 20 foot shop width seems huge but in time when you have more machines or more wood to store you'll be kicking yourself for not having made it 24. Enjoy what ever you decide to build.

1. 
   DougF | Jan 02, 2006 06:39pm | #16

   I agree whoelheartedly: my shop is 20 x 35 and the extra 4 or 5 feet in the width would have made a lot of difference.   

6. 
   Nick54 | Dec 08, 2009 07:52pm | #17

   I use 2 bays of a 3 bay garage for my shop, approx. 20' x 26'. In the corner behind a makeshift .25" plywood wall and door are my natural gas high efficiency furnace (outside combustion air source) and natural gas hot water heater. All this in a 2300sqft ranch. The HVAC furnace installer said that when I remove the .25" wall and door and replace with 2x4 construction, I should cut a 6" hole into the attic area and lower a 6" PVC  pipe to within about 10" from the floor in close proximity to the water heater burner with half the wall circumference cut away from the bottom up to about 12". This would provide a sufficient clean air source once the room is relatively air tight from the shop. As for vapors from finishes and solvents, I would not work with these in a closed up garage regardless. It would be best to provide some sort of positive ventilation, I'll just crack the door and run an explosive proof fan.

7. 
   bones | Dec 11, 2009 04:19am | #18

   What kind of furnace and hotwarter heater do you have?  I know in my previous house I had solid state ignition on the HW Heater and furnace which were both gas.  In my current set up Basement I do not have that luxury, so I just do PM on a regular basis and change out my filters and check for dust build up.  I do have a DC and use it religously.  When it comes to finishing, I am really carefull.  My basement is partially exposed on one wall and I can open two windows to get ventialtion going and I kill power to the HW heater & Furnace when finishing.  I don't do it that much so it's not that bad.  It's easier to change filters and check for dust build up and have the furnace professionally checked out.   Even if you wall it off, I'd do that, plus if you do wall it off ensure you still have air flow. 

   ...Advice is a form of nostalgia.  Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off , painting over the ugly parts, and recycling it for more than it’s worth –  lyrics from the song wear sunscreen

1. 
   Bonecrusher | Dec 11, 2009 06:03am | #19

   Wow. You guys are replying to a post I made over four years ago. Since then, I've abandoned my basement workshop, finished my basement with a home theater, and built a detached 24'x 36' workshop. My question no longer applies but hopefully someone else will get some value out of the responses.

1. 
   bones | Dec 11, 2009 02:22pm | #20

   too funny, i never noticed the date since it appeared as a new thread to me.  I guess I added on.  Have a good one....Advice is a form of nostalgia.  Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off , painting over the ugly parts, and recycling it for more than it’s worth –  lyrics from the song wear sunscreen