Replies

1. 
   SCFrankland | Oct 06, 2004 01:40pm | #1

   I have the 19.2 PC circ. saw, drill and router and I have been very happy with all of them so far. The battery life is not as long some other brands but I have lots of batteries and two chargers so it isn't an issue for me.

   Scott C. Frankland

   Scott's WOODWORKING Website

   "He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."

1. 
   BuelPace | Oct 06, 2004 09:00pm | #7

   Hey you guys-

   Thanks for the replies.

   There's just too many choices on everything these daze.  But, after speaking with an old friend this morning, I'm leaning toward the P/C tools.  Certified dealer around the corner.  Son took over from his father after retirement, so the shop is solid, and I like the way they feel in my hand.  Interchangeable batteries, and 19.2 Volt so a little more juice (hopefully).  AND a decent return policy if I just can't stand the decision . . .

   Thanks for the nice responses.  On some other forums Newbies get flamed when posting broad questions . . . and at 54, it's tiresome.

   Will let ya'll know how it goes.

   Buel

   "I used to be amazing.  Now, I'm just amazed."  Mr. Wille Nelson

1. 
   301 | Oct 07, 2004 08:05am | #12

   I am going to ask you a hard question:  do you really need a bunch of cordless tools?  I have a fully equipped, professional shop and only have one little Makita 9.6 volt drill to drive screws in without hurting my old wrists.  I don't know what I would do with a bunch or cordless tools.  Think about it before you buy.

1. 
   EvilTwin | Oct 07, 2004 03:25pm | #13

   I got by for many years with just a cordless drill myself.  I recently upgraded to get a new drill and wanted a cordless circular saw to go with it.  I do lots of work around the house, especially outside and it is nice to not have to drag a cord around.  But if I was going to need that saw for an all day job, I would pull out my old sears corded saw.  Now if he is just setting up shop, I understand if he wants to have everything matched, but the cordless stuff is more expensive and is not for all day use.  If it were me, I would stick to corded tools since they are the greater bang for the buck.  But since he asked, I would recommend Bosch from personal use and Milwaukee from their reputation.  I like PC tools, but with the buyout I would be a little leary of long term support.  Hitachi cordless stuff looks ok,  but it is a bit cheaper then the others. 

   I would most likely stay away from the consumer level stuff like Ryobi, skil, B&D, though they may be servicable tools I feel more confident using the higher end brands.

2. 
   BenA | Oct 06, 2004 03:03pm | #2

   The first thing I would do is to find a LOCAL tool distributor in your area that sells all major brands of power tools. Second question I would ask, is he an AUTHORIZED service of the tools your going to buy? If not try looking in local yellow pages. You mention you want service , IMO that's the only way your going to get good service on repair and accessories on your tools. Once your find that out, ask them the best tools to do the job you want to do, not too many manufactures make the BEST of all tools, some have better types of tools than others ( routers, saws, drills, etc.), so you have to choose the best out of each manufacturer. So, when you find a good industrial tool store (stay away from internet purchase), that  sells and services your tools, IMO I thing you'll be a happy camper with the products you purchased , and buy the BEST you can for your dollar, just don"t buy tools based on price, buy on the tool that will do the best job.  Good luck

3. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Oct 06, 2004 06:57pm | #3

   Buel,

   I don't think that there is one better company overall.  I would not consider limiting myself to one brand.  I would suggest buying the best in each category that you can afford.  My only cordless tools are drills, an impact driver, and a cordless Bosch jigsaw.   For cordless I own Hitachi, Bosch, Makita, and Dewalt.  I have owned,used Milwaukee, AEG,B&D, and Ryobi in the past.  Corded I own many brands and have many colors in my shop.  Recently I have been investing in Festool system for the precision and quality.  I have been impressed with the system and quality of the tools and dust collection.  Their support is unbeatable.    

   My personal experience is that when buying a "Pack" of cordless tools with only 2 batteries is that I am always changing batteries between tools while the other one is on the charger. Usually I will go thru the charged pack before the other one is fully charged and either use a battery without a full charge or loose time waiting for the battery to charge.   I usually buy individual tools with its own battery & a spare and charger.   If I end up with duplicate chargers, that's ok.  I can charge more batteries faster and leave one in the shop and take one to the jobsite.

   One thing to consider is battery life and remember that you will need to replace batteries down the road.  So consider the cost/availability of this into your decision as well.  Also consider the type of batteries included in your purchase.  There is a difference with NiCad and NiMh.  Some of the manufacturers have a replacement guarantee on their batteries, so it may be worth looking into that arena as well.

1. 
   EvilTwin | Oct 06, 2004 07:22pm | #4

   Craig

     I was looking for someone who had the cordless Bosch saw.  I have the 14.4 v drill and Circ. Saw and like them both alot.  The drill is the model that preceeds the "tough" series, the 3660 model.  I got the drill and saw for 200 about 5 months ago with 2 batteries.  As you mentioned, with more than one tool, batteries become critical.  I need at least one more battery and was thinking about getting another bosch cordless tool, most likely the jigsaw.  I have found it at this site: http://www.cpotools.com/52314.htm as a refurb with one battery for 150.  Seeing as how buying just one battery will run me 50, getting one with a saw and extra charger for a hundred more doesn't seem like a bad deal if the saw is as good as the other tools.  What I want to know is how well is it made, how well it cuts and how long the battery lasts.  Is it as good a tool as the corded Bosch jigsaw?  I know tools like Circ. saws kill the battery pretty quickly, so how about the jigsaw?  If it came with 2 batteries, I would jump on it.

    They also have the compact tough drill I listed for 120 with 2 batteries http://www.cpotools.com/32614.htmand the combo I got (saw and drill) for 180. http://www.cpotools.com/3660ck.htm.  These seem like pretty good deals if anybody is interesed.

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Oct 06, 2004 09:26pm | #8

   Bob,

   The cordless jigsaw cuts as well as the corded version, just not as many strokes per minute.  From what the rep told me is it is basically the same drive mechanism as the corded version with a 14 volt motor.  I think it is built as well as the corded model. 

   The batteries tend to died quicker than I'd like when cutting 3/4 stock, but still works fairly well.   Cutting openings in 1/4 stock (cabinet backs) they last for alot longer.  Its a small price to pay for the portability of the cordless jigsaw that actually cuts well.  Much better than the Dewalt in my opinion. 

   I picked mine up on special when the Bosch truck was at a local home center for $99 (new) with charger, bag, and extra battery.  Too good of a deal to pass on.

   you could also check allprotools.com, they also carry bosch and have some good deals occassonally. 

   I have the 3360 drill, the 12V version and it works great, and the 9.6compact tough drill. (also Bosch deals ). 

   For an extra battery, you could check on ebay, sometimes they come up pretty cheap there.    

2. 
   RonInOttawa | Oct 08, 2004 11:39pm | #15

   With respect to operating multiple tools using just two batteries, I understand that Ryobi may soon be implementing a marketing tactic which may make buying additional batteries a much less painful decision. Starting with their 18-volt batteries, they will be introducing a 2-pack of their standard 18-v batteries for approximately $50. This will be offset by the fact that many of their tools such as cordless jigsaws, recip, circular saws will be available without any batteries. In other words, if you already have an 18-V tool, new ones to complement your existing equipment will be cheaper. Apparently the plan is to also eventually implement this approach with the 1 4. 4 and 12 volt products

   I suspect this will have two ripple effects, if actually implemented. First, other manufacturers will be pressured to lower the high prices they charge for single replacement batteries, which often runs to about 75% of the price of a new tool with TWO batteries and a charger. Secondly, I suspect it will boost the sales of those tools that are usually available only in a combo set i.e., the chainsaw.

   If Ryobi actually does this, it will be interesting to see what effect it has on the likes of Dewalt, Bosch et al.

   Regards,

   Ron

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Oct 09, 2004 01:23am | #16

   Ron,

   I'd be interested in seeing if this comes to market, and whether anyone will stock the trimmed down tools, as there is only so much real estate to compete for on the shelves.  Personally, I will not buy Ryobi, as I am a professional by trade and will invest in the best that I can afford or the job will allow.  I'm not saying that it is not a good brand, I just am not in the market for that tier of tool presently. 

   As for Bosch, they have their program for professionals, which I believe will replace the batteries for up to 3 years from date of purchase that has been in effect for a couple of years now.  So far, I don't know of any other mfg's that have matched their program.  DeWalt has recently increased their warranty on their miter saws as well. 

   Most manufcturers and retailers count on accessory sales to make up for less profit on the larger items.  If the manufacturer does offer a less expensive version of battery, that doesn't necessarily mean the consumer will see it.  The retailer can sell the product for what ever the market will bear, or not even carry it, if they feel there is not sufficient profit to cover their overhead and make an acceptable profit margin. 

4. 
   EvilTwin | Oct 06, 2004 08:03pm | #5

   I think he is doing his homework, he is asking for opinions from what should be a pretty knowledgeable group.  You can go to a store and fondle all the tools you want, that may or may not give you the answers you want.   I have been happy with Bosch cordless and corded tools, I would recommend them, but there are other brands available as well and they may better suit his needs. 

   When I am in the market, I look online for people who have the tool or for indpendent reviews.  I also like to touch it if possible and see if I like what I see.  But in the case of cordless tools, that isnt going to tell me if the battery life is short, if the drill has as much torque as its competitors, if the company makes it hard to get replacement parts.  That kind of info, even though it is very opinionated at times comes from sources like this.  Gotta love the internet...

1. 
   jackplane | Oct 06, 2004 10:13pm | #9

   That's why I deleted my post. After re-reading his, I didn't want to comment on cordless-only tools.

     I still believe there is no one maker of "best" tools on the market, as most companies specialize in one area, not all areas.

5. 
   achome | Oct 06, 2004 08:11pm | #6

   Only worked with cordless drills so far.  Started with an old 12v dewalt, and it still works fine.  Replaced with Milwaukee 18 v.  Seems ok, but the battery is difficult to take off.  The fact that you can flip the battery pack if it gets in the way is nice though.

   Johnny

1. 
   nikkiwood | Oct 07, 2004 02:37am | #10

   It sounds as though you have made your commitment to Porter-Cable.

   But if not, I thought of a few criteria as I was reading the other posts:

   l) I would not buy into a system that does not have a lot of vocal users who praise the line: Bosch is one brand, Panasonic is another ( I have many and have used them for years). Do a search here and you will find other threads, since this is a frequently discussed topic.

   2) Consider what tools you would like to have that are cordless. I am only interested in cordless drills and impact drivers, and Panasonic makes some of the best. If you want a broader range of cordless tools (jig saws, riciprocal saws, radios, etc.) then Panasonic would not be the best line for you.

   3) As someone else suggested, find out the cost of replacement batteries for the system that appeals to you. Some are high priced, some are more reasonable.

   4) Most of the premium lines are now using NiMH batteries, which I think are preferable

   to Nicads.Look at battery ratings: 3.5 amp hours is better than 2.0.

   5) Personally, I don't think it is necessary that you buy from an outlet that also services what they sell (as long as a service center is in your vicinity). I do agree with others who say it is desirable to buy from an industrial tool place that sells many lines of cordless tools. Question their sales people carefully -- they often have great insights into which lines are preferable and why, especially the veterans that have been selling this stuff for a long time.

   Hope this helps. Good luck........................

1. 
   BuelPace | Oct 07, 2004 03:08am | #11

   Nikkiwood -

   Thanks for the reply.  I'm not completely sold on P/C equipment, although yesterday it seemed to lean that way.  The retail store I mentioned is well regarded, and the staff has really been helpful.  Most of the projects I do are outside, and dragging a drop-cord and all the stuff that goes with it, gets old.  That's the main purpose of the cordless tools.  Walk back to the garage, get a battery, walk back to work area w/a nice cool bottle of water and not be pissed-off.

   All of my old crap is mismatched, so for service on an old drill, I have to go to the Sears Service Center...many miles of side streets and a real pain in the you know what.  So on and so forth...  BTW, the very old Craftsman drill I have is a monster... just temperamental.

   Thanks,

   Buel

1. 
   OneofmanyBobs | Oct 08, 2004 02:16pm | #14

   P/C has historically had a lot of battery problems.  Bosch and Makita are pretty well regarded. The cheaper consumer varieties don't last for heavy use.  Check out the Breaktime forum.  They have a lot of comments on all the brands.   I have some of most every brand.  They all have their positive and negative features.  I can't say any particular one is so good that I would get all my stuff from that one brand.

6. 
   TXJon | Oct 12, 2004 02:43am | #17

   I have a couple Dewalt 18 v cordless, and I have no complaints about the tools.  The batteries, though, well, they just plain suck!

   At about $80 each, I really need them to last  a while.  I am not a pro, but a pretty hardcore homeowner type.  I have been through 6 batteries, in batches of two.  Each time, one battery last a year or two, the other is a paper weight in three months.

   Consider also that buying more than one cordless from a single manufacturer is a little like getting married.  You've got all these tools, batteries, maybe even a really cool radio, changing brands would really mess that all up.

   Tell you what, though, every time I look at my large collection of paperweight batteries, I think about divorce.

   Maybe I can find someone who still feels the love, and unload the whole package for a hundred bones or so.

1. 
   BuelPace | Oct 12, 2004 03:12am | #18

   Funny answer.  Not the batteries, but the divorce.

   Left behind some tools when I got divorced, and looking back, I'm two fer two...but then again I wasn't married to anyone named DeWalt, that I know of anyway. 

   Thanks for the reply.

   BTW, I'm a also a hardcore homeowner and really enjoy being able to do most projects. Do you know of a really good and solid cordless nailer...from finish jobs like moulding to medium carpentry like door/window jams and furniture projects.  I've been thinking about buying one, and have researched some brands like Senco...any feedback or sugggestions would be appreciated.

   Buel

2. 
   lwj2 | Oct 12, 2004 04:28am | #19

   You might check to see if the paperweight batteries have built up a charge.

   NiCad batteries will "take" a charge if not completely discharged before re-charging and fail to function when they are exhausted to that point.

   The maintenance guys where I work all use DeWalt 18v and swear by them. As they provide their own tools, I'm sure I'd have heard if there were problems with the batteries.

   Good luck.

   Leon Jester, Roanoke VA

   Q: How do you know when a politician is lying?

   A: His lips are moving.