So, I am sure you guys are probably tired of newbies and all their ?’s, but I have to ask…
I have been wanting to start with some projects, creative boxes, end tables, coffee table, etc.
I have only basic tool knowledge, but I am an avid reader and in need of a challenge.
Problem is, I have no idea where to start with tool purchases, a router/router table seems to be an extremely versatile setup. What about clamps, drill, sander, etc.
Right now, I have just about $1,000 and want to make the right choices from the start.
Any input on setups, specifc tools, etc would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks in advance for your time and advice.
Replies
Donner, you'll get a multitude of opinions but all the others are wrong, just listen to me :-).
Actually, I feel that a tablesaw is an important starting point. I also think your idea of a router/table is a good early investment.
I've been "collecting" tools for about 20 years now and got a "real shop" about 10 years ago. Here is the order I went in...
1) several hand tools - palm sander, scroll saw, circular saw, power drill, battery drill - I lived in appartments and used my dad's shop when I went home.
2. Table saw
3. Drill press
4. Router/Router table - I built the table.
5. Miter saw - though if I were to do this again, probably a sliding compound miter saw.
6. Jointer (used 6")
Long break before I bought the next tool
7. Delta 14" bandsaw (new Aniversary edition)
8. New Tablesaw fence (vega)
9. Planer
Table saw can be used for cross cutting, ripping, dado etc...
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Thanks for the advice!
More ?'s.
Any feedback on the Incra Jigs from those of you in the know.
Also, I need input on tablesaws, brands, models, what's your recommendations?
I went with top line Rigid - it was toss up with the Delta at about the same price. I was on a limited budget at the time and spent $650 on it Look at various reviews in magazines - you can spend up to $1500 or more on good cabinet saw
Also depends on what you have or can have in the way of power - some tools require 220v or can be used on either 110 or 220 but will always run better on 220 if available.
Thanks Rick, no apologies necessary, all info is greatly appreciated.
You guys are a tremendous help!
From an aging woodworker/machinist/woodworker with 48 years of tool building/using experience: Incra jigs are one of the best things that has ever happened to woodworking. You do need a few years experience with both table saw and router table before you invest in Incra jigs or yours will probably sit in the box a long time before use. Good luck.
As far as good source for finding used tools, I use the local thrift paper and http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html
Craiglist is real active here in Portland, OR and I have been able to use it a lot. Also, if there is a SEARS service center near you , they also sell scratch and dent items at a song. I just recently picked up one of their 4x36 belt/disc sanders ($119 new, $89 on sale) for $45 and the only thing wrong was that the box was torn - not a scratch on the sander and it works perfectly.
Once you Know what you want, if time is not a huge issue, you can troll ebay. I picked up my Makita 3/8" corded drill for $20 and it was new - it took me watching and trolling about 3 months to get it at that price, but I had an old drill and a cordless to use in the meantime. For power you can't beat the corded drill.
Someone is sure to jump on me, but here goes. I had a shopsmith and it was pretty good the drill press, sander and lathe worked great, only used the horizontal boring option 2x, the table saw was iffy with small table and wings - I just was never real comfortable with it. As for the add-ons, they are about as expensive as standalone machines and are not as good as one - ok but not real good. I had the bandsaw and quickly regreeted it - now getting a Grizzly bandsaw. Service on the shopsmith is also questionable anymore.
For the price I would pass and spend the money on standalone machines. Decide what you want to make, see what it will take to make it and then think of what you want to make next and see if the tools overlap - if the do go for those tools first and then revist the others on your list and see if there are alternatives and see if you will need them again later on. I have a friend who fell in love with his scroll saw and now uses that alost exclusivly for his small projects. He also has a band saw and planer to get his wood to the thickness he wants.
Good luck and let us know what you decide on so we can all jump on you and offer congratualtions (for following our advice) or commiserations (for ignoring our advise)
1 - measure the board twice
2 - cut it once
3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go
4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
I would start with a table saw. A 10 inch blade is a good size. There really is no other good tool with which to cut panels, such as table tops. You can also crosscut with it. Making a crosscut sled (like Norm Abrams or David Marks use on their TV shows) will help a lot.
A router table is also a good early tool to purchase, because it can be used for all sorts of edge treatments.
For a sander I'd recommend a random orbital sander rather than a belt sander. A belt sander is for fast, rough work, not finish work.
Cordless drills are handy, but the batteries only last a few years. If you were going to buy only one drill, I'd get a corded drill. You can buy lots of extension cords for little money. A good quality drill with ball bearings, 3/8" chuck, variable speed, and reversing direction is a great basic tool. I happen to really like my Craftsman.
You can't have too many clamps. You'll need some bar clamps. The one-handed squeeze-lock clamps are handy, but if money is tight you can get clamps that you screw onto ½" plumbing pipe real cheap. I use the squeeze clamps up to 3 or 4 feet, and use pipe clamps for anything over that. With different lengths of pipe I can clamp up to 10 feet.
It takes many years to build up a collection of tools, and until you are in the hobby for a while it's hard to know what direction your interests will take.
By the way, a table saw is quite dangerous, so you should learn and obey all the safety precautions. Buy a pair of ear muffs and safety goggles no matter what tools you use.
Thanks for the info!
Mark has a good bead on it, his scoll saw may be, and probably is, a jigsaw. A true scroll saw should way down the list unless you really want to do fret work.
For me, one of the first of my "big" tools was a workbench.
Due to jigs and such you can make and use to edge joint a board on the router table or tablesaw, after his number 5, I went with a compressor and accessories (brad nailer/stapler, finish nailer, impact wrench, blower and paint sprayer), planer, then the bandsaw and then finally the jointer.
A lot will depend on the space you have available and what you want and would like to do.
Floor model machines are best, but for things like a drill press, you can get by with a benchtop. If going that route though you can and should spend almost as much for it as for a floor model.
Buy the best you can and in what order you need them - save up, use a tax return or a bonus. Only get something that is relativly cheap if you only pland to use it very infrequently and renting one more than once would about equal the cost of buying it. I bought a cheap $50 wet tile saw for a 2 day job where the rental of one was $22 a day. so for $6 more I now have one that will last at least a couple of more jobs( I have 1 small one coming up for my wifes birthday).
As for other tools, a variety of hammers - tack, rubber, dead blow, claw and small sledge. Screwdrivers, pliers, Good measuring devices (tape measure, ruler, squares..) clamps - various length and style clamps, nail sets, storage containers
Books and magazines - lots of them for ideas, reviews and info on Jigs to make tools do more
Sorry for the long winded reply.
Good luck
Jigsaw first handtool = scroll saw later (bench tool)I didn't list the scroll saw because I forgot about it. It's the only tool I let the kids use mostly unsupervised.I don't remember where in the sequence I bought it. I didn't really need it but I got it for a good price so I added it to the collection.It gets used a fair amount now however.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
A couple of things come to mind.
Buy used if you can. Woodworking tools can be had for good prices, but you do need to be careful. If you aren't familiar with that type of machinery then get a friend that is.
A basic used contractor saw can be tuned to perform well but there are a lot of tweaks. Some basic ones are a link belt, steel pulleys, a good blade, a zero clearance insert. Those things alone along with checking trunnion/carriage alignment make a night and day difference. The rip fence is probably the biggest compromise on lower end tools.
Check local clubs, guilds, etc. Might even check local arts centers if you have any or known local woodworkers. They might be a good place for resources.
The local library is a great source for the many starter books and video's that are a great help in learning the correct way to accomplish the many operations needed to build a project.
As far as type of equipment that is hard given your budget. You can do more work with a table saw, you can probably do better work with a band saw. I saw this only from a personal design point of view whether you want complex curves in your projects. A band saw can make cuts a table saw can't and can be tuned well enough to cut tenons and dovetails.
A jointer and planer are very important as well to fine work and getting stock four-square.
But if you want to build some cabinets with plywood a bandsaw and jointer are not much help.
Lastly I would suggest getting some hand planes (block, smoother, jack), a japanese saw, a couple of spokeshaves, a carvers rasp, some card scrapers and a couple of waterstones. Tuning up and using inexpensive tools will teach you a lot about what makes a tool do its job and wood grain and how to work with it. It will only make you better with power tools. A SOLID work surface and stops and hold-downs are the other half of hand-tools, ignore that and you will be frustrated.
I can't stress enough how important tuning is to fine work. Only expensive hand tools are usually ready out of the box. Even expensive power tools need to be checked.
The first time you use a properly tuned hand plane the light will come on. Its hard to believe its the same tool that came out of the box and you can understand how people could actually work efficiently with one. Try to use a tool that hasn't been tuned and you'll be chattering and tearing your way to frustraction.
The point is you can get by with inexpensive tools but will need to do more work to the tools to get them to work properly. A tuned woodworking tool is much more likely to do what the user intends.
Work safely, end with ten.
I am going to suggest you buy a used Shopsmith. Right away, you have a tablesaw, lathe, drill press, and disk sander. There are accessories which add a planer, jointer, and a scroll saw.
The reason I propose this is that in order to build the projects you listed, you will need a variety of tools. A $1,000 budget will not go far unless you buy mostly hobbiest tools, which are not very accurate and do not last long.
With the Shopsmith, you will be able to start building right away. When you can afford a good tablesaw, buy it and use the SS as your drill press, etc.
Years from now, when you have replaced everything, you will be able to sell the Shopsmith for almost all you spent. Even then, you will probably use it as a backup tool.
I have just about $1,000 and want to make the right choices from the start..
I did not see anything about what tools you DO have??..
I would hang onto the money... Pick a project you would like to start with.. Get the wood you want to use and see what you REALLY need to do it..
Can't go wrong with a good Table Saw and glue/clamps!..
Hello Donner,
I've only done this for two years seriously, but all my life to some degree.
Take your time and research a lot first. Listen to folks, but wait to decide. I bought a Rigid table saw, then sold it on ebay after one year to get a Delta cabinet saw which is much better. I bought a Rigid jig saw which was strong, but cut 'crooked', at a slant. I replaced with a Festool which is so much better as to be hard to believe. Lesson, don't rush out too quickly. The guy who said pick your project and then tools has some wisdom. Eventually that is reversed, but only after you have a full shop.
One person mentioned Norm Abrams of New Yankee and David Marks of Woodworks on TV. They are both very good. I watch not just their joinery, but the tools, shop layout, DC, sequence of actions, etc. Part of my learning came from their tool choices, although Norm gets lots from Porter Cable as a sponsor. David Marks has a show on stationary tools. He says the must have stationary tools are table saw, band saw, planer and jointer. For his work that is correct, but not for everyone.
Good luck.
Donner
Like Ribs, I've only been at this for about 2 years. I began by taking a couple of classes at the local Woodcraft, and am now buying time in their woodworkers club. This has allowed me to try every tool I could ever want, and I am now building a workbench which will be the first item in my home workshop. If the there is a WC or some sort of guild or Community College that has a shop that you can get time in I'd begin there. You'll learn loads about what tools you're most comfortable with, as well as which ones are most useful for your projects.
For me, I've collected old handplanes and some elctrical tools from my Dad and Grandad, and have bought a few new ones too. Once I save a few bucks my first "big" purchase is going to be a good size bandsaw. While you can't work with sheetgoods on it, you can always break them down with a circular saw and a shootingboard, and then move to the bandsaw.
For the projects you've listed a bandsaw and a router, with table, will do you fine to start, so long as you take the time to learn to use them properly.
Good luck
Aaron
Hi Aaron, Reading your advice to the new guy and great stuff. I have one question for the old plumber here; what is a 'shootingboard' ? Thanks ,Stan
Stan,
I'm not sure where I picked up the term "Shootingboard," but it's basically just another term for a cutting guide. I've made a couple, one is basically a t-square that I use for crossing cutting and dados with my router, the other is just a perfectly squared piece of plywood for ripping. I've looked at some of the extruded aluminum cutting guides that are available, festool and such. They look nice, though pricey, so for now I'm doing just fine with my homemade ones.
Aaron
As I recall, a shootingboard was a jig used to trim fit miters with a plane.
the miter board sits so the 45 is along a flat plane that you then take a block plane and put on its side to trim a whisker off and make sure the 45 was accurate or to shave a bit off for a correct fit
jig sort of looks like a K tipped over so the legs are down the back is horizontal.
1 - measure the board twice
2 - cut it once
3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go
4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Rick,
It sounds like I should try and stick to trying to learn this craft of woodworking and not confusing terms. My understanding was that you would "sight" with the board like you were shooting. Thanks for correcting me.
Aaron
No problem, By the way, I got some of your tricks on sqaures from Carol Reeds Router Joinry book. I have a combincation square I picked up for $3 plastic handle area and steel ruler that was staright so I used an auger file to get it so that it was square. I used the 2 plastic drafting square tick to make sure I had them good then used them to make sure my combo square was square. I now have a $3 plastic combo square that is as good as my starrett combo square. Wish I knew this trick before I spent the big bucks on the starret.
1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
FYI, I did a search of all forums for the term shooting board and got back a ton of hits - fun looking over the info - alot were in Knots
Edited 5/18/2005 4:52 pm ET by Rick
HI AARON, THANKS FOR DEFINING THE TERM,SHOOTINGBOARD' NOW I KNOW. I AGREE ON YOUR HOMEMADE STRAIGHT EDGES. I HAVE TRIED TWO OF THE STORE KIND(H.D.) AND BOTH WERE OUT OF SQUARE,A LOT. NOTHING LIKE HOMEMADE. THANKS AGAIN FOR THE INFO. STAN
So, I am sure you guys are probably tired of newbies and all their ?'s,
NOT TRUE! We look smart then!
Here is another way of thinking about tool acquisition, incorporating much of what has already been said in other responses. There are three basic categories of tools:1) Hand tools and measuring devices; you don't say anything about what you have in your inventory now, but this is the first place to start. 2) Portable power tools. The three indispensible items are: circular saw, drill, and a router -- with a saber saw not far behind. Each is about $150, for a total of $600, assuming you buy good stuff. I purposely omitted cordless tools, which while convenient, are also expensive when compared to their corded brethern. 3) Stationary tools. A table saw heads the list here, but buying a decent one will blow your $1000 budget. At a minimum, I would first consider a so-called "contractor's saw", which you will have to spend somewhere between $500-1000.Another very useful tool is the compound sliding maitre saw --- which can be had for about $500. These are good for cross cutting anything up to 12" -- and could be an alternative to the TS whilst you save your dollars. Next up the line here, I would recommend a portable planer. There any number of good ones in the $300-500 range. From there, you would probably want to add a jointer -- a six inch would run around $500.If you go this far, then the machinery choices really depend on the type of work you want to do. *****************************************In sum, I would add my recommendation to those folks above who advised that you buy equipment as you need it."I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
I dont know where you live but.... What I tell every newbie is first go take some woodworking classes from the local jr college or night school ect.
That way you can play with all their tools and build your projects safely..
Safety is or should be the number 1 concern for all those starting out.
You can get to know people and discuss what tools are best for your situation
Why..
so you dont make the rookie mistake of going out spending a lot of moneyon things you dont use or have to upgrade in the future, buy it once...
use it correctly and safe... Buck Construction View Image
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Hello, I'm a newbie to the forum but not to the trade. I stumbled into my current job as a cabinet/furniture maker about 3 years ago and now I'm hooked. I had the same problem/questions you do and now the answers are decidedly more clear.
I would recomend starting with a good set of hand tools. An accurate c-square or engineers square will allow you to make sure your stock is true and square and how much EXACTLY you have to compensate if it is not (incidentally, I use a 6" starrett engineer square that I found at an antique store for 10$). It is also indispensable for power tool setup and tuning. As was stated by others in this thread, a well tuned tool will mean all the difference in the world. A good set of bench chisels and a plane will allow you to finish where the power tools left off. A good sturdy bench with some storage should be one of your first projects. Buying one is always an option and is certainly quicker, but building your own will allow you to try out some tools, customize the storage and the end result will make it a pleasure to step into your shop.
After spending the last 3 years in a production shop, I've learned that Dust colection for the power tools is a must. Start within your budget and continually evaluate the amount your shop needs. It will make your shop safer, easier to work in and allows you to produce more consistant results.
Buy the best that you can afford and buy it when you can justify the cost.
Don't stop asking questions. It's an easy way to learn.
Well Donner----you have received some good advice in the posts so far!! I went into my shop fulltime about 11 years ago. If you approach your purchases as though you are trying to make a living at woodworking, you WILL be cautious in your buying. Before going into my shop I would buy "gadgets" on a whim------now I weigh it out and ask myself "will it pay for itself or do I really need it?"
I have taken workshops with several nationally known woodworkers and they do not have a lot of uneeded tools and machines sitting around.
Thus---decide what you want to do and gear your tooling to that!!
Best wishes, Jerry
Just my way less than humble opinion.
Get a good table saw first. Bench or contractors doesn't matter much. I've done lots with a second hand Caftsman bench saw. But when I moved up to a Delta contractors, I was in heaven. Then get a good couple blades, I have a 28 tooth for heavy ripping and a 40 tooth for finer work.
Someone mentioned measuring tools. Great advice, A combo square, Tape measure, T-bevel, Framing Square and Metal yard stick are a good start. You don't have to spend mega bucks, but I wouldn,t be shopping the bargain bin here. Stick with Stanley,Empire or Johnson and you'll do well.
As far as Hand held power, Mid grade Circular saw, palm sander, drill (Corded 3/8 VSR) and Router. If you want a cordless drill, don't go crazy, I use mine alot but it is really just a powered screw driver. The corded one is more versatile. Buy a basic set of router bits and add as necessary.
Basically, you can start with mid grade tools and and move up from there. You will more likely than not start with basic joinery and as your skills improve so will your taste in tools. The fun of woodworking is in the doing. Start with simple projects and learn as you go. Kind of like driving, most folks don't start with a Ferari.
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