I am just getting started as a hobbyist and followed some good advice and signed up for Cabinet Making I at the local county adult vo/tec school. The course description included the following: “… students will receive detailed familiarization with handplanes chisels and sharpening…”
This is exactly what I wanted because I want to learn all the hand tool skills that I can. The problem is that during the first night of class the instructor informed another student that ” it is rare that you would use something as historic as a chisel anymore..” Also there was not one hand plane to be found. I asked whether or not we would be using hand tools. I was looked at like I was a fool ( my interpretation, I may be a little over sensitive) and was told “No…. They’re just much too slow…”
So I am cancelling my enrollment. I think I may just schedule time in my basement to work on things alone and see how it goes.
Does anyone know of any good programs in the central New Jersey area? Should I plan a vacation to a school in New England in the coming year? Any suggestions or general comments on my experience are welcome.
Thanks all…. CPR
Replies
Hey, even Norm uses hand tools now and then!
I highly recommend you check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393322769/sr=1-1/qid=1138803793/ref=sr_1_1/103-5942653-8524631?%5Fencoding=UTF8
And then go practice in your basement.
Good luck.
One option would be to see if your local Woodcraft store has classes that interest you. http://www.woodcraft.com
I wouldn't be too hard on the teacher in that program. A vocational program is by definition a job skills program, so it's most likely that this instructor is accustomed to training people for work in production environments where it is unlikely you will see a lot of hand tools in action. Sounds like they could have done a better job on the course description though.
I tried not to be too hard on the teacher. The problem is that the course description could not be more opposite to what is really being taught. I guess it's not the teacher's fault but there was a hint of a negative attitude toward hand tool usage. I would suspect that night school students in a class that meets once per week are not looking to become produciton cabinet makers at the end of basic instruction. Most are probably hobbyists or do it yourselfers who want some basic instruction. I agree that the bulk of the problem lies with the school and their description of the course.
CPR
I would ask if he has read the course description and then act. The power tools skills may be a good thing IFF (remember this from Math class?) the instructor knows how to use them and is an effective teacher. If he did see the course descrption and is doing it his way, the school needs to hear about it. If you were buying a finished product, based on the description, it would be called false advertising. If you go to the local woodworking stores and ask for the person who is most knowledgeable in plane use, they may have one or may be able to point you in someone's direction. The FWW forums on hand tools has been a big help to me, so I would recommend looking through the threads for pertinent information.I gotta go and reassemble some planes now. With the info I have found here, I have been able to get good results in a very short time.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
First, I invite you to come to a meeting of the Central Jersey Woodworker's association; our next meeting will be held on Wednesday, Feb 8th and details are at http://www.cjwa.org. Our members have skills ranging from none to professional, and hand tool use is a common denominator among us (not only do we use chisels and hand planes, we even have a tool to measure sharpness in our sharpest chisel contest). There is no obligation to come to a meeting (though as treasurer, I would welcome a new member with $25 dues check in hand).
One of our members, Mike Zaslav, has an introductory class held in the Long Branch area that deals with many aspects of fine woodworking. Mike uses and has tremendous appreciation of handtools (Mike is a former James Krenov student). In addition, Mike and other woodworkers will be teaching classes this summer at Peters Valley, which is up by the Delaware water gap. I don't have the Peters Valley website at hand, but I suspect you can find it with Google.
Hope to see you next Wednesday. And tell the bozo who said "no one uses hand planes or chisels anymore," that not everyone makes plastic boxes for WalMart.
The announcement I just received for this month's meeting is below. If you have any questions that you want to run offline from this thread, feel free to email me.
Please plan on joining us at next weeks CJWA meeting at the Old Brick
Reformed Church in Marlboro, NJ starting at 7pm.
Agenda
Introduction of guests
Old and New Business - Roger Ackerman, all
Budget Report with member vote/approval - Paul Weber, all
Feature Presentation: Cabinetmaking - John Crowley
John will provide us an overview of his work, methods, shop and latest projects,
with many photo's, etc. He will also lead a discussion on how
he prices his work and review several methods he's been using.
He started this as a second career, 18 months ago, after spending
30 years in the computer industry. See: http://www.crowleyscustomcabinets.com
His gallery is very impressive!
Break
Member Show and Tells:
How to use oil stones - William Duffield
Shop of the month - David White
Adjourn
Directions at our web site. See you next week!
Your statement about a tool that measures sharpness sounds interesting. Can you provide any details? Thanks.
Actually, no I can't, because there is discussion about patenting it. This may have made as a joke, but until I hear different I better not say anything. Dumb, I know, but it isn't my IP to give away...Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
Pondfish-I had no idea there was a Central Jersey Woodworker's Association. Since I recently moved to Freehold your meeting location is only 15 minutes away. If your invitation to CPR extends to others, I may come to the next meeting to check it out.Rich
Yes, by all means, membership is open to all, regardless of woodworking skills and background. Turns out we're the only general WW association in New Jersey (there's a woodturner's association), Central, South or North. I've even had people from Staten Island express interest, since the Long Island club is a heck of a long drive.
Hope to see you Wednesday.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
Well CPR made a good recovery there....(I refer to his course cancellation)
Now, Pondy, you mention a tool for Measuring Sharpness Of Chisels-please give more details on this-how does it work, a picture.....
If that thing actually works , can you imagine the amount of B/S it could prevent?Philip Marcou
CPR,
I agree with the others. Depending on how much time you have, the course would still be beneficial for power tools, production, etc.
But, if your focus is handtools, which I love, then the local woodworking club will be a treasure house of top quality information, experience, help, and fun. Although the quality of any retail establishment is determined by the owner/manager, Woodcraft where I live has excellent classes in exactly what you are looking for. The local woodworking club can guide you on that point.
Alan - planesaw
Jeez Louise, I don't blame you for cancelling! Might I suggest that you also contact the coordinator of the adult ed "division" or whatever, and suggest they update the class description....
The instructor is a fool!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Do unto others as you tell them they should do unto you....
I agree that the description is way off and needs to be corected, but I also think the instructor is crazy - I know that the production shops I have been in and a number of good carpenters that I know all keep and use chisels and at least a block plane. Most have a good selection of hand tools.
Look into the club if you can, barring that, Woodcraft and Rockler both have classes and demos. Also see if there are any other community colleges in the area that may have classes and then ask to talk to the instructor and find out if what will be taught is what you want and if your personalities mesh well.
Finally, while hand tool work is nice, it would be well to get the instruction on basic power tool usage as well.
1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Edited 2/2/2006 10:21 am ET by Ricks503
Ha! Send your instructor to my shop!
170,000SqFt, 50 cabinetmakers. 2 CNC machines plus beamsaw.
Every man has his own routers, trimmers, and power tools, plus at least one plane and a few chisels.
The right tool for the job at the right time.
Jeeez, too slow?
The older I get, the better I was....
Thank you all for confirming that I am not crazy. I find this forum is one of the best sources for information so I consider you all my teachers.
CPR
Wood Craft is a good option if there is one close to you. I frequent the one just outside Hartford, CT since I am close by in NY. I have been fortunate enough to take workshops with the likes of Phil Lowe, Garret Hack, Mario Rodriquez and others. Just too much to watch them work and learn from them, totally awe struck. But since you are in Jersey check out http://www.TheArtsatACS.com I spoke to the gentelman that runs the school out of his workshop in Trenton (I grew up just over the river in PA) and it sounds like a great deal. Spoke to him at the Wood Works show in Somerset NJ as few weeks back. Since I travel to the area at times to visit family I may try to fit in something from his school. Learning from true craftsmen is a fantastic experience.
You're fortunate to have a wonderful fine craft school in New Jersey. The Peters Valley Craft Center is in Layton, in the northwest corner of the state. Take a class there (or at Penland, Anderson Ranch, Arrowmont, etc) every summer and spend the rest of the year practicing what you learn. You'll have a great time, meet fun people, eat too much, and learn a ton of exactly what you want.
Steve
Who ever said that obviously dosen't build anything more difficult than bird houses. I am not a hand tool fanatic, If there is a machine that will do the job faster and the result is as good I will use the machine every time. However chisels are frequently the fastest way to get the job done. fitting a tennon, flushing joining parts, cleaning dried glue, triming a dowel. That guy has no experience in any fascet of wood working beyond bird houses and mass produced work.
Mike
Hey there, I work in a cabinetery shop and oh yeah the power tools makes life easier but every day I use my hand planes or chisels (if not for cleaning out glue in some crevice). If you read articles by some of "The Masters", when they taught , you didn't touch power tools until you could use hand tools..... Learn how to use those and you will become the better woodworker for it, this I can personally attest to.
Crpntr5
I had exactly the same problem with my local trade school. I live in the Boston area so I was able to take an Introduction to Fine Woodworking course at North Bennet street School in Boston. This course lasted 10 full days as was not cheap but I feel it was worth it. I have since taken many other courses there but because my garage(shop) is not heated I still use the trade school courses during the winter. In addition they have some larger jointers - planers bandsaws an such that are useful in getting larger projects started. The instructor leaves me alone and it works ok for me. I do wish the school maintained its equipment a little better but I now how hard it must be trying to keep your eyes on a bunch of teenagers.
There are several trade school in my area and I found a wide variation in the quality of the night school instructors and classes. I occasionally attended another trade school which spends a lot of time teaching more classical furniture making techniques. Unfortunately for me the program is more rigid in its requirement and I already have covered that material in more detail.
I believe it would be worth your while to investigate other trade schools that my be in your area. You might want to stop by while class in currently in session and talk to the instructor and see what they are working on.
I have helped several students and I'm sure some of the other people taking the course may be able to give you some help even if the instructor can't.
As irritating as it is I wouldn't be to hard on the school system. Most of these kids will spend there life installing kitchen countertops and installing cabinets and most of the instructors I've met seem to be from the same background. That's just the way it is, there is no money in making good furniture as few people can tell the difference and are willing to pay the price.
right description, wrong instructor.
The description was probably one that was written by a previous instructor. Night programs pay poorly and the instructor is pretty much stuck with using someone else's shop and tools, so the turnover is high with the quality and content of the programs unpredictable. There is still no excuse for the misinformation unless there was a last minute change in instructors.
You've had great advice in the previous posts. Hope the woodworking group is within travel range for you - it sounds good.
I've taken one week-long New England summer craft course (actually it was blacksmithing ), one of the most enjoyable vacations I've ever had.
A week gives you time and the continuity to really learn something. Just do your research to make sure the course offers what you want.
Keep checking with other local schools, and ask a lot of questions about their programs. There are some good ones out there.
LOL... I just loved your post! Sounds like MY life.. Maybe because I AM Old and a fool!
I hear ya! Been there did that as the saying goes...
I have teachers in my family.. Two daughters are (Masters) and my GREAT Son-In-Law (PHD) in education.. Hell, they great but don't know everything. Me either!
I like you, attend classes all the time when I can afford it.. REAL bummer when you waste money.. And time..
Hope you find something GOOD...
Over at wodcentral.com there is a mesage from someone who will be teaching a class in the central NJ area.
"Fundamentals of Fine Woodworking
Monmouth Adult Education Commission (MAECOM) Course: Spring 2006
Course Description: This course provides an introduction to the hand and machine tools
in making basic woodworking joints for solid wood furniture.
Coverage includes sharpening chisels and plane irons, tuning and using handplanes,
stock preparation, edge joinery, surface preparation, making handcut dovetail joints,
mortise and tenon joints, and frame and panel construction.
Numerous exercises are used to provide the student the confidence
needed to prepare the joints. A proper balance between hand and machine tool methods is emphasized.
While not a formal project course, students learn the foundations of fine woodworking which will provide them the confidence to proceed with solid wood furniture construction.
Prerequisites: Open to Adults with some prior experience with woodworking machines.
8 Sessions
Time: Tuesday 6-9 PM
Start Date: Tuesday March 7th
Location: Long Branch High School Woodshop
Tuition: $300 (paid to MAECOM)
Supply Fee: $25 paid to instructor the first night of class
Don't miss your chance to learn woodworking locally at a relaxed pace.
Register early as class space is limited.
Instructor:
Mike Zaslav is a past President and Founding member of the Central Jersey Woodworkers Association and a lecturer on a range of woodworking topics including sharpening, veneering,
joinery, and tool selection. He is a graduate of the
College of the Redwoods Fine Woodworking Program under the direction of master
cabinetmaker James Krenov. Previous teaching includes the MAECOM class
Fundamentals of Fine Woodworking in the Fall of 2003 and Spring 2005.
For more information call MAECOM at 732-542-3439 "
While face time with a knowlwdgeable woodworker is invaluable in advancing your handtool technique, I have found David Charlesworth's books: Furniture Making Techniques I & II, to be invaluable in advancing my sharpening techniques and plane skills. There are a lot of such books out there, I just find that Charlesworth's books seem to address the mind boggling paradoxes of planing and tuning in a very understandable fashion.
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