Yesterday I got my eagerly awaited L-N dovetail saw. Only had time for one try, and it was pretty messed up, before a minor family crisis made me pack up for the night.
What amazed me was how well I could cut to a line and how straight and thin the kerf was. In my limited experience no other tool of any type has seemed so ready to use out of the box, even for a rank novice. Seems like the chisel work is going to be more challenging than the cutting, the saw is that user friendly.
I intend to follow the Frank Klaus method as written up in the October Popular Woodworking. Now to set up for some serious practice sessions. Fortunately I have a bunch of knotty pine lying around with no other intended use.
Question for experienced hand DTers: there are two small crosscuts in the process, where the end tails are cut to match the half pins. Does anybody use a crosscut saw for this or is that over the top extremism?
-robert
Replies
If you like Klausz' method, you might like his video. I'm learning from it too, and found it very helpful. I also have a thread pretty current on this topic in Skills & Techniques. Maybe you'll find the thread helpful (or maybe you're further along than I am).
The video is published on DVD and videotape by Taunton, and I got it at Woodcraft.
Have fun, and good luck!
Edited 11/17/2005 4:23 pm ET by FatherJohn
Thanks. I've seen the video, and found it impressive. For some reason, though, being able to carry around the hardcopy and stare at it, somehow clicked for me in a deeper way. Then I tried a cut with the L-N saw at a show, and was instantly hooked.
I have indeed got value from your thread, thanks for kicking it off!
-robert
I have indeed got value from your thread, thanks for kicking it off!
This forum is just so useful, I appreciate it very much. I'm definitely making progress much more quickly than I would be able to, just teaching myself from books. Folks here are so helpful.
ram
The best way to get good at hand cutting is with tons of practice. I used to make 20 or so lines in the end of a board, clamp it up, and practice keeping the saw just off the line a hair. After a while, your body remembers the technique, and you'll cut nice square and plumb without thinking about it.
Jeff
BTW I have the LN saws, and agree with you, they're the best I've ever used.
Jeff, thanks! That's exactly what I intend for my next couple of sessions: saw 1/2" kerfs to practice lines -- first straight (pins), then angled (tails), repeat until proficient ;-).
The wood I'm learning on has zero marginal cost (had it for 12 years sitting in the barn rafters), so this is big yuks on the cheap!
-robert
ram
Yep!! And when you're done, crosscut that 1/2" off, and start again on the newly cleaned end until you get to the other end of the board. By the time you get there, I'll bet you'll be cutting dovetails so fast you'll never even look at a router again!!
Jeff
Question for experienced hand DTers: there are two small crosscuts in the process, where the end tails are cut to match the half pins. Does anybody use a crosscut saw for this or is that over the top extremism?
I recently saw a demo by Rob Cosman, he used the rip saw to make the two small crosscuts. He actually makes a point that they are crosscuts in his "Dovetails are a ripping operation" speech. I really liked his presentation, and his method.
If you had a big enough end tail it might be worth it, but if they are just little guys then I wouldn't bother.
Buster, that's what I thought, thanks. I just figured, as long as I know nothing about it now I may as well try to learn "right" -- not that there are many absolutes.
-robert
FWIW Klausz uses only a single saw as well.
Cool. That means all I need to do is tune up my modest set of chisels and I'm good to go!
-robert
Of course you could us ethis as an oportunity to purchase a new tool...
Now that you have got a LN saw, try Ceciel Pearce's method- use a hacksaw. Yes you read right, I said hacksaw. Highly tensioned blade, rip pattern, and available in many tooth sizes and sets. I think I would skip the pine and practice on some hardwood. Resin in pine tends to make saw drag. Every day, cut just one dovetail (two pins,one tail) and soon you will be sawing with the best of them. For more fun, get a copy of Mark Dugenskie's tape "Mastering Woodworking Machines" and see how to cut them with tablesaw. Use bandsaw to remove waste.
Ram, the way I see it is that those two small crosscuts you refer to are critical to the well-being of the whole joint- not only are they extra visible (especially the top one), but if they are not square they cause trouble when one clamps, so I give them this treatment:-
I cut with bandsaw (or handsaw in yourcase) as much as 1mm away from the scribed/cutting gauge line, but aim to come in to the line at the end of the cut i.e a wedge shaped piece cut. Then I use a chisel to chop in about 4 or 5mm from the face and inner sides, the chisel being guided by the scribed lines. I then place the work piece edge-up in a horizontal position in the vice and chop vertically down across the grain, again being guided by scribed lines.
Hope you can understand what I am saying-the method works well for me.
<"Then I use a chisel to...">
Agree- I use a chisel in pretty much the same way- when cutting preceisely to a scribed line, it is hard to beat a chisel for an accurate, clean "cut".Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
the rip saw tooth pattern on your L-N will work fine at cutting off the 1/2 tail. I have heard from several that a rip saw will work better at crosscutting than the other way around. My experience agrees with that although I think any saw that is sharp and properly set is the most improtant thing to accurately using any handsaw.
L-N also uses a very narrow set to the tooth pattern in their dovetail saw which makes it work very nicely. I believe they will also re-aharpen for you when it is needed although this is a skill I think anyone who uses handsaws should learn. I bought some older 26" distons on e-bay very inexpensively and practiced with them. I now am moving up to the smaller backsaws. If your interested get Tom Laws tape from Taunton.
Dan Evans
Wow folks, this is a ton of great advice. It's been said before: the people on Knots rock!
-robert
Just a couple thoughts- First, you don't always have two cross cuts. Its depends. I only have a cross cut at the top. At the bottom is a half tail concealing either a rabbet or a groove depending on the period I'm working in. I only mention this because the cross cutting required may be half as frequent as you are thinking.But to answer your question, the concern is that a rip saw may splinter off a piece of the drawer side. That's what rip saws do when they cross cut (and this opens pandora's box about x-cutting with rip saws) and why people don't like using rip saws for x-cutting. Saws with very little rake are worse for this. Last LN I saw had quite a bit of rake, so it might do okay. The Adria saw had almost none. So the Adria may not x-cut as well (but it will rip faster). Okay, so the solution to preventing the splitting is to either use a cross cut saw for this cut or strike a deep knife line through the corners and use your DT saw. Just remember that when attempting to x-cut with a rip saw, rake and pitch are your friends, and a striking knife is essential to avoiding problems.Adam
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled