Replies

1. 
   BobL | Dec 13, 2004 05:32pm | #1

   you might want to look at the Roussue table for yout Makita.

   you can get accurate cuts without spending big money.

   later on you can move up in the type of table saw you want for more precision.

    

   bobl          Volo, non valeo

   Baloney detecter

1. 
   Nurseman38 | Dec 14, 2004 01:21am | #2

   Thanks, I have looked into Rousseau.  I guess I was trying to decide, Do I want to invest 200-300 more dollars on make shift when I can sell the makita and put the 200-300 towards a more permanently settled machine with the weight and design to grow on.  Sort of a do it one time for now things Thanks again.

    

2. 
   mike4244 | Dec 15, 2004 03:01am | #3

   You can buy a very good cabinetsaw for the price of the contractor saws you mentioned. Check out Grizzly website, G1023 is a 3hp 220volt saw. Craftsmen power tools are not recomended by most people familiar with their products. Hybrids are contractor saws with the motor underneath instead of sticking out the back.Way over priced and underpowered for my money.

   Before you buy , do some reading on table saw use.There are several good books out there.As far as tool guides go, take them with a grain of salt. I've read reviews that were so biased I wondered if the kickback from the manufacturer was enough .

   mike

1. 
   Nurseman38 | Dec 16, 2004 04:08am | #4

   Mike thanks for the great advice.  Amazingly, I happened to be talking to a good friend of mine who also has owned a contracting business.   He basically told me that nothing from craftman would ever be bought by him again.  Not to ruffle the feathers of anyone, but he was so adamant that I actually promised that I'd look at something different.  Question though, I'm not so familiar with switching voltages.  I've been looking into some of the 115-120volt or dual voltage saws, such as the general 50-220c.  I figure that I can make use of the 2hp which should last me well until I achieve any proficiency and change the voltage as I become familiar or as the money for the electrician presents itself.  is this thinking solid?  Again, Thanks to you and anyone else with input.  It's greatly appreciated and helps.

    

   Gene

1. 
   mike4244 | Dec 16, 2004 11:00pm | #5

   That's a good idea Gene. 2 hp is probably plenty for almost any application. The G1023s can be bought with a 2hp 100volt single phase motor .This is the same saw I own except I have the 3hp motor.

   Merry christmas,mike

3. 
   Ribeye | Dec 17, 2004 05:19am | #6

   Since you've asked about the Craftsman Professional 22124,  I can gleefully fill you in.

   I should point out that I've actually had off-and-on experience with all sorts of table saws, both in professional shops and amateur garages,  for close to 45 years.  Now just because I've been exposed to a lot of different machines in a lot of different environments over a lot of years doesn't make me an "expert" by any means.  All it really does is give me some perspective that others might lack.

   I bought a #22124 table saw last October.  I LIKE it -- a lot.  The more I get to use it, the more I like it.

   Why did I buy it (instead of... )?   I bought it for the Fit, finish, and bang for buck.  I also bought it because I saw the actual saw (instead of a picture) before I bought it.  I bought it because the Sears store is a mile-and-a-half from home (not half-a-continent away).  I bought it for price (I paid just under $870 TOTAL for the saw.  That price includes the saw, delivery, taxes and a two-year extended service warranty) and features (large cast iron surface area, outfeed table, Biesemeyer Fence system, 110-Volt capability,  1.75 HP motor, etc, etc, etc, etc).

   I feel I have had (perhaps) exceptional service from my local Sears store.  Sears contracts out for delivery services.  The local contractor darned near did a curb-side drop of the saw (which is what Grizzley and others would arrange for).  Fortunately, I had a large furniture dolly and the (single) delivery guy put the saw on the dolly and got it into my garage and the left.  Well... the saw had to go around to the back of the house onto my back patio (and it should never have been left on that dolly, either). 

   A call to the Sears store was met with a "They did what?!?!?" and a promise to set things right.  When the delivery service refused to do what they were supposed to do,  Sears sent two (2) hardware department managers to my home and _they_ took the saw back around to it's final resting place!  (So there and phooey on you, delivery service guy!)

    That's a feather in the cap for local-store service.

   Now onto the saw itself...

   Over the past two+ months I have been able to run a lot of BF of lumber across it and and VERY impressed and pleased.  Rips of 4/4 Hickory cause it no pause.  Ditto on ripping ten-foot long hunks of 4/4 Alder.  Pine simply melts before the blade.

   The Biesemeyer fence works like it should.  It's dead on accurate and solid.  In fact, the entire saw was dead on and accurate right out of the box(es).  I didn't have to adjust anything for square!  Even the miter gauge was set properly. 

   As I noted above, I've used a lot of saws over the years and have a lot of respect for the Delta Unis, the big Generals and the Grizzley.  I do indeed like 'em as well. 

   Would I trade the Craftsman 22124 away for one of the others?  I don't see why I would want to (and that's experience speaking).  Your smileage might vary, and that's fine :-)  I like my choice.  I hope you like yours as well!

    

   --Steve

   http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/

   Penury is the Mother of Invention

1. 
   Nurseman38 | Dec 18, 2004 03:58am | #7

   Steve;

   Thanks so much for the input.  You've given me much to chomp on and believe me I'll keep this all in mind.  I'm attending the woodworking show in Edison, NJ this weekend and I'm really Excited about it.  I've reserved some Of my decision making in hopes of getting looks at as many saws as I can on Sunday.  I too was impressed when I went to Sears and saw the saw(haha).  I was impressed with what you get for the price, but I was a little apprehensive as I was reading some of the other Tool Talk writers speaking on parts availabilty later on down the line.  Believe me I will take my time and let all of this newfound knowledge guide me as well as my wallet.  Thanks again and I'll definitely be getting back to each and every writer.  By the way Steve, great website and impressive work.  I'll definitely keep you in mind with my inquiries.  Just don't let me be a pain in the butt.  Take care

2. 
   bambam405 | Feb 15, 2005 08:44pm | #9

   I, AS MANY OTHERS AM NEW TO WOODWORKING. I'VE SEEN SO MANY DIFFERANT VIEWS ON SAWS I DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY IS UP. I LIKED WHAT YOU HAD TO SAY AND WAS WONDERING HOW YOU GOT SUCH A GOOD PRICE AND WHERE I MIGHT LOOK MYSELF. THANKS FOR THE HELP. 

1. 
   Lightman | Feb 16, 2005 03:30pm | #10

   Bambam and Nurseman,

     Hey guys I gotta say I'm all in it with Putzger.  I purchased a 22124 back in Nov 04 and so far I think this saw will be a winner. Same experience as Putzger, 4/4 oak not a problem. Cypress and pine like butter. That Bessie fence is soooooo fine. Set up was a breeze, even though I fussed over it a bunch. Dust collection really impresses me. Even comes with a decent combo blade.

   Oh yeah your talking to someone who swore off Sears tools years ago. This is an exception to the rule though.

   Of course I'm one who feels it doesn't matter what tool you buy as long as it does what you want it to do.

   If I was already in a full blown cab shop or making a living at WW then I would have gone with a cab saw, short of that I think a cab saw is more than you need. And ya know what? you can always tradeup. I always used to try to buy for the LIFETIME TOOL.  Don't kid yourself, technology moves us to the the latest and greatest double-whammy, super-duper, whoopty-do tools and you'll say boy I wish I could try one of those.

   Anyway I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you choose and good luck.

   Jimmy

   as always I wish you enough. 

2. 
   Glaucon | Feb 18, 2005 05:36am | #11

   I'm sure that you will get many opinions on tablesaws- everything from induction motors to properly aged castings.  For most WWs, any of the top brands will be more than enough- Delta, Grizzly, General, Jet- even Craftsman. DeWalt makes a hybrid that has garnered some praise and is less espensive than a Unisaw. More than likely you will adapt to the foibles of the saw and have many years of production before perhaps trading on or up to something else.  Irrespective, I'd just make a few points:

   1.  I would go with 220V.  You will develop more power, particularly on startup and under load [Power = emf (volts) X current (amps)].  My first saw was a radial arm (that I still use to size lumber) and frequently labored making thick cross cuts.  I rewired it for 220 and have not had a problem since.  Most saws can easily be rewired for 220V by changing the plug and the terminal connections (usually carefully explained in the manual, as they are sold around the world- 220V is standard in Europe).  A 220V outlet is worth a trip to HD for the outlet and breaker, particularly if you have room in your service panel for another circuit.  In the US, most code states that 220V should be home runned (single outlet from the panel), but that is because most 220V applications in the US are high current (e.g. ranges, clothes dryers and A/C).  Power tools really aren't.  If you have a single person shop, and won't be running more than one tool at a time, you can gang 220V outlets safely (they do in Europe all the time).  Your dust handler should be on a separate circuit (whether it is 110 or 220) since you are likely to be running that at the same time as other tools.  Be careful to purchase the right gauge Romex for your application (I usually use 12 or 10g).  IMHO, most of the arguments about motor problems can be solved by using 220 instead of 110V.  If you find yourself crosscutting 8/4 maple or cherry, you'll appreciate the difference.

   2. I would buy a left tilt saw.

   3. Pay close attention to the fence- if you are going to spend additional $$, put it here.  You can shim tables and build in- and outfeed rigs to answer many saw problems, but if the fence is miserable, you will make a lot of firewood, and hate the saw.

   4. Hook up to a dust collection system as soon as you can.

   Glaucon

1. 
   bambam405 | Mar 04, 2005 11:17pm | #13

   I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR INVALUABLE INSIGHT. I'M STILL IN THE PROCESS OF BUILDING MY SHOP AND WIRING IT, SO I DEFINETLY WILL INCLUDE A 22O OUTLET. I'LL KEEP UP WITH YOU AND LET YOU KNOW HOW IT GOES. THANKS AGAIN.

3. 
   Ribeye | Feb 26, 2005 03:51am | #12

   Bambam,

   I'm ever so sorry for the delay in answering your (very good!) question.... I just saw a notice in my mailbox today ;-(

   "How'd I get such a good price"? ... That's a two-part answer :-)

   First, if you are not a member, go to the Craftsman website and join the "Craftsman Club".  That silly plastic Craftsman Club card is 1) good for a lot of special "CC-only" sales and 2) (when a "CC" event overlaps a general sale, it's good for an additional 10% off of the sale price of any Craftsman-branded tool(s).

   Here's how it worked for me:  the 22124 saw was on sale for about 945 or so.  A "CC" event was going on at the same time. (The saw was then hauling down a full retail price of about 1,050 or so.)  So... the "CC" extra 10% discount knocked another 94.50 of of the price ---  this made the $1,050 saw an $850.50 saw.  Sears knocked an additional $40 off because of the delivery service' attitude about doing a curb-side drop ship. Now I'm down to $810.50 :-)   --- and it did keep getting better :-) :-) !!

   It seems that someone in local-store management recalled some other (really minor to me) issues and zeroed out the delivery charges ($45). Suddenly I'm now looking at $765.50 for a $1,050 saw!  I did want the two-year extended warranty contract. They tossed in year three for free as an "apologetica".  I really don't understand "why", but hey! :-)

   I was not kidding about the two hardware department managers who came to my home to place the saw on the back patio.  Indeed, those two guys even offered to set the saw up for me! I declined only because I wanted to have some chance to get "intimate" with my new love :-) 

   The bottom cold-cash line (before sales taxes and other add-on costs) actually brought the raw price of the 22124 down to about $720.   As far as I am concerned, though, $855 would have been a very fair price (that's the sale price less the "CC" 10%).

   Am I prejudiced toward the saw for many reasons? You durn bet I am!  Mostly though, the Orion-made saw package is enough to justify the purchase all by itself.  The other "malarky" was (to me) a gift from the local Sears store.  (You just KNOW they've a dedicated customer for ever and ever now :-) )

   Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

   Even without the "goofiness" that went on, I'd still be thrilled with the 22124 saw. It does indeed stand on its own against all comers.  -- Steve

   Enjoy life & do well by it;

   it might well be the only chance you get.

   http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/

1. 
   bambam405 | Mar 04, 2005 11:20pm | #14

   THANKS FOR RESPONDING, NO PROBLEM FOR THE DELAY AS GOOD INFO TAKES TIME. THE INFO YOU PROVIDE IS GREAT. IT SEEMS THAT ALL I'VE DONE IS READ. I'M STILL WORKING OUT THE KINKS ON THE SHOP, BUT LOOK FORWARD TO THE PURCHASE AND BEGINNING OF WHAT I HOPE IS GREAT JOURNEY. THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP.

4. 
   Peter36 | Dec 19, 2004 05:13pm | #8

   My thinking would be that if I already owned a table saw, and I was going to upgrade, I would wait until I could afford the saw that would last my lifetime. For me this would be a 3 HP cabinet saw as I have a contractor saw and do want to upgrade. I would forget any bells and whistles, and personally I will buy a left tilt General.