Replies

1. 
   joinerswork | Jan 30, 2004 04:37pm | #1

   Tom,

   Why not eliminate the 4x4? It will be easier to assemble the box without anything in the center to complicate things.  If the 4x4 has a crook or bow in it, for instance, it will prevent assembly.  Alternatively, make your box a bit oversize, so the 4x4 doesn't interfere with assembly, then slide it over the post. Wedge or shim to take up the slack after assembly.

   I've had good luck with gluing up these joints right from the table saw. Use a smooth cutting blade, and make sure you're ripping a straight edge.  Glue the triangular offcuts back onto the OUTSIDE surface of the miter joint with a sheet of paper between, to give yourself a clamp block, (or cut larger strips for this, if your offcuts aren't big enough).  The paper allows you to split them off after assembly.  Check the assembly with a square after glue-up, and adjust the clamps if needed to pull the sides so they're perpendicular.

   Glue the sides up in pairs, then fine tune the fit on the last two joints with a plane if needed.

   Good luck,

   Ray

2. 
   Sphere | Jan 30, 2004 06:26pm | #2

    A lock miter router bit..and leave the post out till after glue up.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?
3. 
   robkelly1 | Jan 30, 2004 09:16pm | #3

   I have done this many times with a lock miter, in mahogany, cherry, and in walnut. For 3/4 stock I use the shaper, and for 1/2" I use the router table. Usually the joint is imperceptible after sanding. On the rare occasions when it isn't, a shim in the exposed edge makes it so.

4. 
   Clay | Jan 30, 2004 10:22pm | #4

   I usually cut those joints on my table saw.  You do need to use a pretty good blade.  after cutting I lay two mating sides out on a flat surface and slide them together with the outside edges up and then I run a piece of 2" masking tape along the entire length across the center of the joint.  I then turn the boards over and spread glue in the miters.  Now I fold the miters mating surfaces together gently, the glue squeeze out all goes to the inside of the joint and I have a nice fit on the outside.   make sure the tape is tightly pressed against the surfaces before folding and don't use too much glue or you'll stretch the tape and get gaps in the joint.  As previously mentioned it is best to join opposite corners and make the final joints with the box in position.  I do like to leave some space between the 4x4 and the box and shim as needed.  This not only helps the fit but also allows for minor adjustments to plumb and position with maximum accuracy.  It is good strategy to make the miter cuts just a fraction of a degree under 45 degrees so that the miters have a tiny bit of space on the inside edges.  This helps to make sure that the outside (visible) edges are tight and also attracts any excess glue toward the interior (where cleanup is minimized).  Use a square or square blocks to make sure that the folded corner is a 90 degree fit.

5. 
   jeffreysherow | Jan 31, 2004 07:11pm | #5

   I agree that it would be easiest to eliminate the inner post.  I also suggest the following:

   1) make sure the entire board is jointed, variations in the board will cause mitres to not match evenly across the entire length.

   2) use the tablesaw and verify the following before starting: blade and fence are parallel and the 45 degree setup is dead on.  (remember, small variations get magnified over a long distance and you are ripping a reasonably long way.)

   3) might use biscuts, I have and it helps with alignment

   4) practice the glue-up and clamping, getting them all spot on and clamped will take more time and clamps than you might expect.  you might try a band clamp on each end, that has worked well for me in the past

   5) plan to make final adjustments with a plane, low angle block has worked well for me on these.

6. 
   patternmaker | Feb 16, 2004 11:51pm | #6

   Tom: I have built many of these glueups as columns for church furniture. Altars and lecturns mostly.

   After glueup most of these are lathe turned into round cylinders ranging from 4" to 16" diameters.

   I seldom need a part longer than 36" The smaller ones are made of six sections and the larger ones may use from eight to twelve sections. The secret in my opinion,is to be certain that all the detail parts are flat,straight,and all edges are parallel.

   Now when I set up the bevel cut,regardless of the angle,I leave a narrow edge uncut.This provides a narrow edge to ride the fence,or whatever you provide in your setup.I glue right from the saw.

   I use the tape method that has been described by others.I usually do not use clamps of any kind.

   Remember that if the joints fit,all the pressure needed is to keep everything in place until the glue dries.The tape method allows the whole assembly to be rolled up and another strip placed on the final joint. To install the tape.I have found that a few short pieces placed across the joint,insures proper edge alignment when the long pieces are pressed down end to end. In the large diameter glueups,When the assembly is fairly heavy,I will wind ####few cloth band clamps around it to support the tape.

   Now to apply the glue.Remember that now your column is laid on the bench inside up. You have a perfect groove for the glue.Formed by the sides of the strips and the long strip of tape. Using a glue bottle,squirt a bead of glue into the bottom of the groove.When you fold up the assembly for the final

   taping, the glue will be equally spread over the entire joint.

   Now for the final statement,which is likely to cause comment. I make the angular joints a little off dimension.Always make a sample strip to check the accuracy of the bevel. For a four sided glueup the angle will be 45 degrees.I make this alittle plus.

   Cut the sample into four short pieces and assemble them with a piece of tape or a suitable rubber band.With the outside touching,you should see a little light in the inside corners.This guarantees that nothing will keep the joint from closing.

   After turning,I never hsd a joint failure.For a four corner post,a little off the flat sides will remove the little ledge used in the original setup. Thank for your patience. Work safely

   ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

1. 
   BrianF | Feb 17, 2004 04:33pm | #7

   Pat,

   You won't get any arguement from me. I also leave the inside of the bevel just a touch open on the dry fit. I want to make sure that outside edge is tight. My rule of thumb is tight on the outside edge and about a paper thickness open on the inside.