I am a woodworker of modest skill, always working to improve my game. I have a typical two car garage shop (my wife so wants her garage back but it ain’t gonna happen) and I have outfitted it with a modest set of hand tools and good power tools; Festool cross cut saw, Festool router table, Festool track saw (ok that it for the Festool junkie – took me a while to learn my lesson), Saw Stop Pro table saw, drill press, home brew dust collection and Parf Dog 20 mm hole assembly table – enough already. My question, what should my next power tool purchase be – a resew capable band saw, a jointer/planer with segmented head, or something else I’m just not seeing. My work initially focused on cabinet construction – shelves, drawers, storage etc. I want to get into building actual furniture – more hand work but with stock locally sourced rough but milled by me. Thanks for the help.
UPDATE
I’ll start by thanking everyone for their replies. As you might have guessed from the start, there are about equal numbers on both sides of the choice. One important fact I left out in the original post was that I own a Dewalt “lunchbox” planer that in my view does an excellent job for me. So I guess that would change the choice to between a band saw or a jointer. One response struck a nerve – since I have a really good local source of hardwood that has already been jointed and thickness planed, why not just start there and work into doing my own milling if that becomes an issue. And for those waiting to find out what I am going to do – the decision is to go with a band saw and increase my holdings of good hand tools – and then spend the time to get good at working with them. Again thanks to all for the help.
Replies
The obvious things to me, almost at a knee-jerk level, would be a bandsaw and a high-quality, big-time jointer/planer combo. To be able to mill truly rough stock of any size by machine I’d think would require these two. But I’m not even remotely amongst the most educated and informed around here, so take this for what it’s worth!
If I were to be given the other half of the garage (I never got my wife to concede her half to me for shop use, darn it!), I’d be looking at adding a good band saw. (I’ve got a Dewalt planer already, and a small jointer.) Indeed, I’m constantly trying to figure out space to allow for a bandsaw right now, so that when the bank account recovers I might be able to fit one in.
Now, this all said, I’ll be paying attention to what others have to suggest for you. Best of luck!
Perry
Tough call but if you want to build solid wood furniture I would probably go with the planer/jointer preferably 12" or wider. Buying wood in the rough and milling it yourself has many advantages. I wish I could recommend my Grizzly G06430XP but alas it has not performed as well as I had hoped despite being well reviewed by FW.
Maybe keep your eyes open for a used Delta 14" bandsaw that you can usually find at reasonable prices and with the riser block they are capable of doing moderate resawing with a good resaw blade this could tide you over until something like a Laguna 14/12 or 14 BX can fit in the budget, I can recommend my Laguna 18bx.
Helical jointer planer combo...12" 3HP minimum.
+1. If you’re milling wood, a jointer and planer is #1 on the list.
Thickness planer. If you have room and money, a 21 inch helical. 15 inch helical would be next choice. Dewalt lunchbox would be third.
Resaw bandsaw would be the next machine. One of the Lagunas seem to be the most popular. I love mine. After that, a floor model mortise with x/y table or the Domino 700.
I've never owned a jointer, and find one totally unnecessary.
Your table saw can handle resaw up to 3 inches and a resaw capable bandsaw would be nice but most 14 inches basic saws will resaw 6 inches for a fraction of the cost. A good jointer with long tables and a 15 + inches wide planer would be my choice, helical cutter head on the jointer will give you the most benefits.
Jointer planer first. Helical head is nice but straight knives worked for 100 years so I’d not let that be a deal breaker.
Bandsaw next.
At that point you will need to make harder choices on what’s next and when as you will be very well equipped.
Of all my power tools, I use my table saw the most frequently. My bandsaw comes in second. I would not want to go without it.
I'm going to suggest a somewhat different approach.
1. You don't mention whether you own a good workbench. Building furniture, particularly with hand tools, requires a good bench. Whether you build it or buy it, quality costs. Don't skimp on the vise.
2. You don't mention dust control. If you own Festools, including one of their dust extractors, you know what good dust control looks like. If you don't own one of the dust extractors (they now have one that's "only" $350) add that to the list along with a dust collector. Unless you want to spend the money on ducting, one of the 1.5 HP single stage or small cyclone will get the job done. Avoid the dust collectors with the fabric filter bags.
3. If you have a bench and a dust collector and you can get your locally sourced hardwoods s4S (in other words, milled down to 3/4, flat, square and true) you don't need a jointer/planer, so go for the band saw. A 14 inch band saw will handle most hobbyist re-saw needs.
4. If you can't get reasonably priced dimensional S4S lumber in the quality and species you want, can you get S2S? If so, you might be able to get away with just a planer.
5. Milling your own lumber is cheaper, but if you have a quality provider of dimensional lumber (not a home center), the band saw is the far more versatile tool. You can't cut curves or dovetails on a jointer or planer but you can on a band saw. If you're a hobbyist like me, amortizing the savings on buying rough lumber over the cost of a jointer/planer will take many, many years. Buying a jointer/planer won't save you many any time soon.
6. The jointer/planer combos are an interesting option. They save floor space which can be a real help. You'll find with the combo machines you'll get more jointer capacity and less planer capacity than comparable separate machines. I started with a 6 inch jointer and 13 inch benchtop planer. That was fine but I became frustrated with not being able to easily joint an 8 inch board and the jet engine roar of the benchtop planer got old quick. I moved up to an 8 inch jointer/15 inch planer both with helical heads. I don't think I'll ever need an upgrade. Helical heads are a good addition but will add $300 to $500 to the cost to each machine. The combo units that are comparable in cost to those machines will probably have around a 12" capacity, more than you might need for jointing and maybe not enough for some glued up panels.
7. Finally, you next best purchase may be taking a good class at a woodworking school like Marc Adams or Bob Van Dyke's schools. There are a number of them out there. The cost of a week long class plus travel can set you back more than the cost of a really good band saw or planer but the experience is worth every penny.
You've already received plenty of feedback, but I'll throw in my thoughts just for the hell of it.
It's hard to imagine life without all three (jointer, planer, and bandsaw), but if I had to choose just one, it would without a doubt be the bandsaw as it is one of the most versatile woodworking machines made. I love my jointer, but it would wind up last on the list as it is possible to face joint a board using a thickness planer and edge joint on a variety of different machines. I have a 20" planer and a DeWalt lunchbox that I started out with and I would recommend going with the lunchbox to get going.
Find a good bandsaw and a lunchbox planer and you will get a lot done with those machines without too much expense. You don't need to buy production equipment to build first rate furniture. Have fun with whatever you choose!
A helical head planer. Powermatic 15HH is a good choice. What you described as your goals would be fundamentally impossible to achieve without a planer. You can get by without a jointer for now and a jigsaw or coping saw can get you started making furniture. The ability to cut straight and square being more critical to furniture making than the ability to cut curves.
Well, first let me thank all of you who replied to my post. Your responses were all very helpful, and frankly along the lines of what I expected. If you ask a number of people to pick between two equally qualified positions and the split is likely to be 50/50. But the true value is in the explanation of ones position rather than the position itself. Thanks again.
My decision is to go with the bandsaw (likely either the Grizzley G0514X2B (19", 3HP, w/brake) or the Laguna 18BX (18", 3HP, w/brake & importantly ceramic guides)). As a number of you pointed out, with a quality dimensional timber supplier ( I have one nearby - certainly not HD or Lowes). I can build furniture without having to mill my own timber and with my Festool router, a sled for my table saw, and yes I forgot to mention that I have a Dewalt bench top planer, I can do most of what I want to do to redimension a board if need be. But without the bandsaw, I think I would be forced to use equipment that simply is not as accurate as I want or I would have to hone my hand skills to a higher level than they currently are. Again thank you for all of the input.
Karl
I would caution you very strongly to reconsider you’re decision. Don’t assume surfaced lumber is “ready to use”.
When you cut boards to length and width, you’re going to have some de-stressing and movement. Even the straightest looking boards can disappoint you down the line. Anyone in this game learns wood has a mind of its own.
*Everything* no matter how straight or flat it looks, gets a run over the jointer and the planer to ensure consistent thickness. Believe me, I know of where I speak!
Planer and jointer first - surfaced lumber still needs to be jointed and re-thicknessed. Definitely helical head!
All great responses here. But it sounds to me like you’re only buying tools for their own sake. A tool is only as good as what you do with it. I would choose a project first, and then get the tools you need. I didn’t get a bandsaw until I needed to cut curves.
Regarding the jointer/ planer combo. I mill all of my own lumber. I have a 6” powermatic jointer and a 13” Rigid planer from Home Depot. I love them both, although I am thinking about getting an 8” jointer. Given my work flow, I would hate a combo machine. Sure, they save space, but the hassle of turnover is greater. How often do I need to joint just a little, or just run this through the planer. I would be very annoying to have to turn over the machine from one setup to another.
Don't sell the combo machines short. Change over time is usually measured in seconds, especially if you get one that doesn't need the fence removed. The time required is no more than the time required for most small to moderate shop owners to roll one machine out and another in place. Plus they provide the most cost and space efficient way for most shop owners to own an extremely useful 12-15 jointer for face jointing boards. This also avoids all the hoops you must jump through and time needed to face joint wide boards on 6-8" jointer. If you tried one you might have a different opinion.
Indeed. It always makes me chuckle to see those lads with a 6" jointer and a 13" planer. Why not get one proper machine with a 10" or 12" capacity that performs both functions?
And what is this thing about getting annoyed about the time it takes to rush from one \WW operation to the next in a "workflow" process? If one is a striving-struggling commercial woodworker, to whom time is money, this might be justified (or the accountant will think so) but for we hobbyists the WW is play.
In playflow, taking time to set up tools is often part of the play and so an enjoyable part of the process. Why, I even enjoy sharpening! :-)
Whilst we're at it, why not get a proper table saw with a sliding carriage? Now there's an efficient tool, so much faster and more accurate than all them time-consuming plywood or MDF sleds.......
*****
As to the OP's next tool - a Domino (or even two, little and large) will perform a great number of tasks accurately and (if one feels the compulsion to race through the "work") it'll do it very rapidly.
Lataxe
Lataxe
I will politely disagree with you regarding the Domino, while it is a fine tool and has its place in a shop, I encourage the OP to learn the skills to cut mortise and tenons a more traditional way first. Leave the Domino's and CNC machines for later. Half the enjoyment in Woodworking is the journey and learning new skills so I encourage them to revel in the simple steps along the way to creating a piece of furniture to be proud of. Just my opinion.
I'm with you on this. Part of it is personal preference and experience level. I'd rather spend 2 days hand-cutting dovetails than 2 hours doing them with a router jig (I recognize that's probably not "normal" here). Maybe my tune will change with volume, but so far I'm not in so much of a hurry.
Neal
p.s. also a bit surprised that Lataxe mentions Domino. It's not very Lataxian.
With regards to the “one proper machine”—perhaps the “proper machine” is not a proper size, for either space or budget.
And is something like a jointer/planer combo—really two machines welded together more or less conveniently—“one proper machine”? Seems like it might be classified as “a hermaphroditic mechanical duality”.
With regards to my own wishes, I can only say that if I could have found a combo machine that would fit in the workshop space allowed, do the jobs that need doing, and not drain the last few dollars from the bank account, I would have purchased one. I did not find one in my searches, and decided, once enough time had been spent on the search, to go with alternatives that fit my own situation. Which is the sort of behavior I’d recommend to others.
I’ll throw in a Bandsaw vote and consider evaluating your garages electrical outlets. All that new stuff might start blowing breakers ..
Oh that's tough. Would you rather....
We are really talking three items here:
Band Saw
Planer
Jointer
This is a tough pick as each does something not particularly practicable with the other tools you have.
Jointer last, I think - they are big (and it seems space is limited) and you can joint edges and thin faces with a router table easily enough. I use my TS for jointing anything under 1.2m and on a sawstop you can do that with a sled easily enough. That having been said, I use an old deWalt 8 inch planer-thicknesser which has both jointing and thicknessing functions and is easily portable on a mobile base. It is still the most annoyingly located machine in the shop though, wherever it is put. It just gets in the way. Even against a wall, it lurks menacingly with the tables just the right height to clip an unwary hip.
Planer or band saw though. Toughie.
You want to make furniture which means you really want both. The planer will offer more opportunities though as for most furniture work, you can use it to face-joint well enough and the ability to change the thickness of a board is really important.
The band-saw makes this less messy and faster, but you can't joint a board on a band saw. You have to plane afterwards. Hand-planing isn't too hard, and very zen, but the buzzer will process large amounts of stock to the identical thickness quickly.
You can also cut curves in most stock with a jigsaw, and can get very precise curves with the router and templates.
That having been said, without a band saw, you have to plan your wood purchases better - you can't just buy 8/4 stock and re-saw to whatever size you need, cut veneers or shape thicker parts easily without one.
So my answer is both. If I had to buy one first, it would be the planer.
FWIIW I bought the planer-thicknesser 15 years before I could afford the cash or the space for a band saw. I REALLY missed it when it blew the motor capacitor 2 days before lockdown....
A good bandsaw is important. I would also consider a 16/32 sander, I mill a lot of my lumber using my router for a jointed edge and my 16/32 sander for surfacing. I have considered a planer and a bigger jointer but I also have limited space. Having started my woodworking with a ShopSmith, I learned quickly that planning is key. I cut most of my rough lumber to oversize, run through my sander then mill edges with a router and table saw. I use a lot of 1/4 inch MDF for templates.
Bandsaw 1st but if you can invest in lots of festool stuff the jointer and planer are not a distance too far. On the other side you can do a lot with hand tools. If you think about it every time you settle on 6", 8", 12" or more there will always be a bigger board coming through the door at some point.
I see a lot of people recommending large jointer/planer combo but to save cost you may be able to get used 8" jointer and 12" planer. Larger is always nicer. Combo machine will save space. Also bandsaw and then some hand tools - dovetail saw, chisel set, block plane, low angle jack plane, sharpening stones, grinder, and diamond plate to flatten stones.
I had a 13" lunchbox planer before I had a jointer. I added a 6" jointer and saw the light. I sold them both and got a 12" J/P. The ability to joint AND plane the faces of the boards you are working with is a game changer. Get the J/P combo.
If anyone snorts about "changeover time" they are either very wealthy or obstinate...assuming you are not a mass production shop.
Thinking about going that route .. selling stuff off and buying the J/P combo. If you don’t mind, which did you get?
I bought a Scorpion by Canadian Woodworker / CWI
https://www.canadianwoodworker.com/webstore/wecs.php?store=wood&action=display&target=CWI-JP1203HC
Thanks!
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