I find myself in an enviable position, I’ve gotten the green light from my wife to buy a few (emphasis on few) more hand planes. I own a Stanley #5 Jack, a LV LA Block, LV Scurb, and a LV Medium Shoulder Plane. Obviously I’m a fan of LV planes. While my Stanley #5 Jack is tuned up and I’ve used it for everything from jointing 6 foot long boards to flattening one side of rough lumber (the same 6-foot long boards), it is a pain to adjust and not a joy to use so I’m thinking of selling it.
I am leaning towards getting the new LV LA Jointer and either the LV LA Jack or LV LA Smooth plane. I believe that the LA Smooth will be more versatile than the Jack if I also buy the Jointer. However, I question the effectiveness of the LA Smooth to shoot end grain. Of course, there is the LV BU Smoother but I really want at least one relatively lightweight plane on hand. Another option would be to get the LA Jointer, LA Jack, and a wooden reform-style smooth plane. What would you do?
Replies
Get all three of the LV LA planes. Seriously, I have the LN LA jack and smoother. I also have an ECE jointer. The one that I reach for most often is the jack.
After having seen the LV LA jointer at MontanaFest, I'm sure looking real hard at it for my next plane purchase. Course they're new jointer plane that is coming soon, really high up there also.
The LA planes are more effective on end grain than anything else, that is what they were designed for. Get a couple extra blades and you can have a variety of effective planing angles just by sharpening the blades at a variety of angles.
Desertrat,
When you say LV has a new jointer coming out soon do you mean one in addition to the LA Jointer that they released this month?
What can the LA Jack do that the LA Jointer and LA Smooth plane can't do together?
"What can the LA Jack do that the LA Jointer and LA Smooth plane can't do together?"Well, there's a pretty big jump between the lengths of those two planes; typically, you'd use the jack to flatten, the jointer to make the workpiece dead flat and the smoother to put a final perfect surface on. It would take forever to flatten with the jointer, and while the smoother would flatten even faster that the jack--cause it's short--you're back to forever to get it dead flat with the jointer because of the difference in length. Think of it like sandpaper grits; how much longer does it take if you jump from 60 grit to 220? If you progress through the grits, the job is done in no time.Now, most times, the jointer is not necessary for surfacing (others may disagree...). Most times, I find that a jack and smoother are more than adequate. I usually even use my LN #62 (LA jack) to joint the edges of boards, 'cause I like it so much better than my bevel-down jointer, and find it easier to keep square.However, if you've got the dough, buying all three LA planes sounds too good to be true! I'd follow the advice to get several blades--although you can change the angle in just a few swipes on your stones--'cause it'll save time; also, make sure you've got decent sharpening gear, and consider the Mark 2 honing jig from LV for getting exactly the angle you need quickly and with repeatability. Personally, depending on your budget, I'd choose the sharpening gear over the jointer, unless you're already set up that way, or have the money for the whole pile...With envy,CharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Don't be too envious yet. I just learned that my car needs fixin and that may eat up my budget. Back to the subject though...
I agree that I could probably do most flattening and jointing with the LA Jack. If I do that, would I be better off investing in LV's new Bevel-up Smoother so I can swap blades. Or would the LA Smooth still be the best compliment to the LA Jack.
- Lyptus
I'd think seriously about the new bevel up smoothers that just came out.
I just got one and love it for figured , squirrelly grain.
Lyptus,
I use a plane about 18" long for about 99% of my work. Occasionally, I use a block plane. I had a smoothing plane out last month for the first time in about 3 years.
From memory, the Lee Valley jointer is about 18" long.
You can get by without a multitude of planes - The order I use planes in is
1: Old bailey fore plane (#6)2: Shoulder plane3: Block plane
They're about the only three I use often. I'll flatten a tabletop with a No8 if I need to, or use a smoother on the odd occasion, but it's not that common.
Should you buy the bevel up plane, it makes avoiding tearout a bit easier - just hone at a steeper angle and convert a standard pitch plane into a York pitch or higher.
Cheers,
eddie
Don't forget that your LV low angle block plane with adjustable mouth will work as a small smoother too. I've been using mine a lot as such lately.I'm partial to the low angle jack, since my LN62 pretty much has a permanent place on my bench. I use the 62 set fine, and my homemade Krenov-clone (12" body, 47-degree pitch, I think) set for deeper cuts for pretty much all dimensioning. These 3 are probably my desert island planes.I don't usually work long pieces though (more than 3'), so if your requirement is different, you might be happier with a #6 or #7 length, plus a "full-size" smoother to take down the humps while flattening. I also work mostly in mild-grained woods, so extra high-angle blades would be useful for the difficult stuff (assuming you decided on bevel-up planes).Have fun tool-shopping :)
Oops, old age was slipping in there, I meant router plane.
I can't comment on the low angle planes. I haven't tried one yet. I am looking at them because they are priced so much lower than the regular planes. I can't help it.
In my opinion, I'd forget about the jack plane. To me a jack plane is too big to be a smoother and to short to be a jointer. I know lot's of people like a jack plane, but I don't.
If I owned the planes you do, my next plane would be a #7. After that would be a #4 or #4 1/2.
Listen, Lypy, surrender now to the fact that a combination of brass , shiney iron, steel and nice timber is fatal. Either you acknowledge the proven fact that you can get away with but 3 (three) planes, one of them being size 51/2, or you carry on along this path of no return, especially if you carry on reading all these instructions from confirmed planeophiles, who will persuade you to buy what they have.
It can be dangerous-a fellow recently flew from the U.S to England ofallplaces to tour the Clifton factory-then it would seem that he tried to recoup the costs by writing an article on this jaunt in a magazine caled "Woodwork"-I mean really.Philip Marcou
Edited 9/30/2005 1:57 am ET by philip
Okay, let's narrow this a bit more....
If each one of you were starting over from scratch and were limited to 3 or 4, in what order would you buy your planes?
Family Man
I've gone through the same thing and have accumulated the following (all from Lee Valley).
4: LA block / Scrub / LA (Bevel Up) Smoother / LA Jack
With blades ground to different angles the LA Smoother/Jack combination gives alot of flexibility for working everything from end grain to figured woods.
aaaaawwwww... c'mon now... play fair.... just 3 or 4....???????? what kinda choice is that.... I mean geezeeeeee.......
choice would depend heavily on what the task at hand was.... I mean.... I use 4 planes alone in just turning rough sawn boards into useable boards......
#40 scrub, #5 1/2, #7 & #4 1/2.. all Lie Nielsen...
I shoot my edges with a #9 iron mitre plane
then there's joint prep planes.. like the #73, #9 1/2, #60 1/2 and #140. (again, all L-N's)
then there's scrapers n spoke shaves, low angle planes too...
so I mean..... how can ya norrow it down to just 4.......sheeshhhhh....???????
downright cruel I calls it.. ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
That's easy. If I could afford it they would be the L-N versions, but if not, used Stanleys.#7
#4 1/2
Adjustable mouth low angle block plane
Scrub planeOh, wait, a large shoulder plane too. Doh!geoff
Edited 9/30/2005 8:19 pm ET by baldmountain
Ok, if we're really playing this game. 4 planes:- A good jack (12"-18") with easily adjustable mouth for both rough stock removal and finer flattening. 2 would be a lot nicer, so you can leave the setting for each purpose. I'm happy with my LN62 for fine work, and 12" wooden Krenov with an (unintentionally) overfiled mouth for rougher work.- Adjustable mouth block plane: shooting end grain, chamfering, shaping, and, with narrow mouth, smoothing- A BIG shoulder plane: fitting tenons, making/tuning rabbets, raising panels- A toss between a scrub, and a high angle smoother for when you normal planes dig inI'm not a big fan of the 2-foot long ones. Probably due to lack of experience with larger work than anything else.
4 planes:1) L-N #62, LA jack w/ optional toothed blade for scrubbing;
2) L-N LA smoother;
3) Veritas LA block w/front knob and rear tote;
4) Veritas medium shoulder planeCharlieA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.
- Robert A. Heinlein
1. Low angle block plane (Record copy of a 60-1/2)
2. Jointer No. 7 (Stanley Bailey)
3. Smooth No. 4 (LN)
4. 1-1/4-inch rabbet (Millers Falls copy of a Stanley 78)
Come to think of it that's all I do use- the rest collect dust mostly. Occasionally I take out my old 45 combination plane for beading and ploughing work, and my little Clifton 410 rabbet plane comes in handy every great once in awhile, which I bought because it was so purty.
David C (a sucker for a pretty plane)
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