Hi folks. I would like to make a nice bookcase for my son’s room. I was thinking of using cherry or mahogany. However, everything I read about making good furniture starts with running the lumber through a jointer and a planer. I do not have either of these machines, and I have no budget to purchase them.
Am I going to have to make everything out of plywood with edging? Can I make decent furniture without jointing and planing? Or do I need to start getting friendly with some hand planes?
Replies
EricT,
You can make simple furniture without either a jointer or planer. Many people do.
You can use edged plywood, as you suggested; or you can use dimensioned lumber at the widths you want. The problems occurr when you need a different thickness or joining two or more boards edgewise. Warping is another common problem. Sometimes it is difficult and expensive to find dimensioned lumber in the species you want.
You can joint and thickness plane with hand planes. Again, many people do, but I find this tedious compared to using power tools followed by dressing with a plane.
Dan
You can buy wood planed to thickness and you can use a router table to edge joint. There are glue joint type saw blades available. There's lots of ways around it. You don't necessarilly have to use handplanes. I know lots of folks who use hand tools as little as possible. It's a personal choice and skill level with hand and power tools.
I'll second the motion on the router table. I *have* a jointer but I was trying to joint the edges of some curly maple this past weekend and I was getting terrible tearout. I jointed the edges on the router table and they came out beautiful!
John-
Where would you look for planed-to-thickness hardwood?
I'm in the same situation the OP is in; no thickness planer nor jointer, and none on the horizon. I have been unsuccssfull finding lumber vendors that are set up for thickness planing or jointing.
Heck, I most lumber vendors won't even cut sheet goods so they will fit in my car.
-Tom Henderson, Ventura, CA
I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find some places that mill the wood or if you look in the yellow pages for local cabinet shops to mill it for you. A planer is pretty cheap and if you consider a cabinet maker at $50 and hour a couple of projects would pay for the planer. You can always sell a tool and recoup most of the money. We buy lots of thing for one job only and sometimes sell it after the job but typically it pays for itself in the long run. You might get real popular in the neighborhood when folks find out you have a planer.
Just as long as they bring some cold beer along with the wood!
You are probably right Bob. My initial attempts have come up empty but I haven't made many calls beyond the local lumberyards and one cabinet shop.
My sense is that there is a bit of a learning curve to setting up using and maintaining jointers and planers, so I suppose the sooner I start the better off I'll be.
Thanks for the comments.
-Tom H. Ventura, CA
Of any power tool I own, the planer has done the most to free up the ability to get creative. IMHO, pieces made from pre-dimensioned lumber always look like kits, or that stuff you buy as "unfinished furniture". Also, with a planer, you can find yourself a sawmill and get unsurfaced wood much cheaper than you can get S4S at a lumberyard. One large project can pretty much pay for the planer in lumber savings alone.
I own a jointer that lives under a blanket in the corner of my shop. I haven't turned it on in over a year. I find that a good glueline rip blade and the judicious use of hand planes have rendered the old beast pretty much obsolete -- at least in my shop.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
"Of any power tool I own, the planer has done the most to free up the ability to get creative."<!----><!----><!---->
I totally agree. I have access to a 20" hog, but I almost always use my 12" lunchbox Makita. I don't ever use the jointer, and I don't use my Makita to dimension rough wood. <!----><!---->
The mill I buy from will plane both sides for 5 cents a board foot. It takes 2 passes to get to 13/16 and it's another 5 cents for SLR. 15 cents a foot to get it planed and SLR is cheaper than I can do it with the big planer/jointer.<!----><!---->
The real value of a planer from a creativity standpoint is thickness control. I fought the stock dimensions (3/4, 13/16 or whatever) before, now I control thickness. As sacrilegious as it may be to some, I have never found the need for a jointer. The table saw with a good blade makes invisible glue lines, so why edge joint? <!----><!---->
That leaves face jointing. If the board is way out of wack, you won't be left with much after you face joint it. If it isn't that far out of wack, you can typically make it work just fine with the supporting joinery, ect. For the odd board that you need totally perfect, hand planes or a planer sled work fine. Of course, that’s just my opinion.
"Of course, that’s just my opinion."
Mine too! Exactly. But, you realize, we are in the minority. Mebbe we should start a club or sumpin'.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
How about the "No jointer" club? Or the "Many ways to get things done and this is just one of the ways" club. Maybe we could keep it simple and go with the "Couldn't possibly know anything because they don't use a jointer" club?
K1500,
So you're saying that if a board is really twisted/cupped/etc, you won't have enough material left after jointing it flat anyway. And if the twisting/cupping/etc is not too bad, then you can force it out during assembly, so you don't need to joint it in that case anyway. Therefore, no jointer required?
If a board is cupped or twisted over it's length more than it's thickness you'd have to remove most of it to flatten it off. Most people cut the board to a rough length then prior to trying to flatten it, which saves wood.
I've forced out some cupping on wide panels with the dovetails. But it's not something I like to do. Adding stress to the joints isn't something I like to do. Though that's me.
The thing to remember is that wood has to meet each other and make contact. Any gaps or spaces will decrease the effectiveness of the joint both visually and strength wise. I don't think that anyone is recommending using poor quality twisted wood, it makes life difficult.
EricT,<!----><!----><!---->
That's my general take on the situation. Maybe I have been blessed with unusually flat stock (that may very well be the case), but I have had little use for the jointer in face jointing. Anything with a serious cup/twist/etc should obviously be cut up and used for shorter sections (unless it's so bad that even short sections present a problem).<!----><!---->
I am in no way saying that face jointing is useless, just that I have found it unnecessary for what I do (and I'd like to think the work I produce is 'fine', but I suppose ultimately that judgment is for others to make). I buy lumber form the mill and buy plenty of extra bf when I am making a project. The primary reason is to get good grain matches and have enough wood for mistakes, ect. It also allows me to be picky when it comes to dealing with funky wood. I have enough on hand that I don't need to force a bad board into service. I don't waste much at all; I just reserve the board for less demanding uses. If most of your wood is messed up enough to require face jointing, look for another supplier.<!----><!---->
I am also not advocating forcing your joinery to hold severely warped boards in place. If I can push a small twist or bow out with my hands, I sure hope my joinery is robust enough to hold it that way. It is wood, and even if you start with dead flat stock, changes in humidity, heat, sunlight exposure, etc will cause it to move after you have built the piece.<!----><!---->
For me, a cup is the hardest defect to deal with without a jointer, as most joinery will not naturally remove a cup. A bow is the easiest defect to deal with. If I need to remove a light/moderate cup I can typically set my lunchbox planer to take light cuts and 'joint' out most/all of the cup. If the cup is severe, this technique works, but just like face jointing, you are left with a thin board (drawer stock).<!----><!---->
As we see, there are many ways to solve a problem, and others vehemently disagree (and that's fine). Just bring up biscuits or dominoes or Festool and see what happens! About the only thing folks can agree on here is the more wood you have, the better off you are (and even then there will be dissenters).
Edited 5/25/2007 11:35 am ET by K1500
With regard to using "dimensioned lumber" -- just keep in mind, it isn't necessarily flat. Choose the individual pieces very, very carefully.
With regard to using "dimensioned lumber" -- just keep in mind, it isn't necessarily flat.
Most isn't. I'm always amazed that anyone can build something decent out of that stuff. It's certainly "doing things the hard way".
In my experience, dimensioned lumber usually isn't even square all the way around. Two adjacent corners are usually square, but there almost always seems to be one side that needs jointing. Hand planes (my preference) or a router table can make very quick work of this.
Also, a local hardwood supplier here is capable of dimensioning lumber to any size you want, for a price :-). Unfortunately, they overcharge for their wood.
Mike
"It's certainly "doing things the hard way." No kidding. I didn't want to say it's "always" or "mostly" not flat/square/whatever, because I only tried maybe 2 projects with it before I said "No way!" and set about getting a jointer and planer.
It's easy for someone who's just beginning to get interested in woodworking to think they can simply pay the piper for dimensioned lumber and be able to build with it, but that's probably not the case.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
People have made furniture for thousands of years before power tools, but without them it might take me decades for a piece.
Check around for an evening woodworking class at a local high school or community college, it can be a fairly cheap way to access the tools needed and you may meet some other WWers in the area.
mousejockey
You are not doomed, just a bit limited in what you can do. You can typically find 13/16 S2S hardwood that is surfaced on both sides. Often, the surface is good enough that you can use it as is and the mill/dealer can straight line it for a bit more. You can also straight line and 'joint' on your tablesaw with a high quality blade.
Where you will have troule is dealing with rough(er) lumber and varying thickness. Bookshelves and the like typically don't need varying thickness. I worked without a planer/jointer for a while and I always struggled without the planer. I have access to a jointer (not mine) but I never use it because I can do almost everything that needs to be done without it.
Back in the '60s I made several items from hardwood-faced plywood edged with matching veneer. It was economical and practical for cabinetry and it looked good. Plywood nowadays is not as flat as in the '60s, however, so you could have more difficulty than I did. For bookcases it is a great way to go. Don't make shelves very long or they will sag. Also, extra care is required when handling material with an extremely thin face ply. All in all, you will probably be able to do the job more quickly than by using solid lumber. The only power tools needed are a table saw, drill, and sander.
I just remembered: I have a commercially made 6-foot high bookcase constructed as described sitting in this room at this moment. Shelves are adjustable. The center shelf is adjustable but secured with screws also for stability.
Cadiddlehopper
Sounds like I could get by OK with S2S lumber and using my router or tablesaw to finish the edges. I'll have to check with my local sources to see what they can provide me. I know plywood would be the easiest solution, but I'd like to try and make something out of solid wood. I'm practicing dovetails as we speak. Plus, I hate trying to muscle around those 4x8 sheets!
I made furniture, including several book shelves, for many years out of solid hardwood without a jointer of a olaner. In fact, I still don't have them. I didn't even hove a router. No, I didn't use hand tools either. I just had to be very careful in selecting the wood. The wood I bought had one edge and both faces planed and I used my table saw to cut the other edge. I was even able to cut them well enough that I could glue the boards together for a table top. So it is possible, but it takes a good eye for the wood and some some skill.
Edited 5/21/2007 10:15 pm ET by basset-hound
I had both a jointer and a planer for a number of years before I became interested in manual preparation, especially since I was often working with pieces that were either too big or awkward to work on the machines. I have now found that I can do it all as easily (and sometimes easier) with just a couple of planes. The biggest help was the video by Rob Cosman called "Rough to Ready" which is available from LN. Take a look at this first before you make your decision. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?showall=519
Just curious. Exactly what did you find useful in Cosman's dvd?
Confirmation of the idea that it is possible to easily prepare a board both flat and square without the power tools. I had read many books about doing it, but seeing it done was extremely comforting. At the time it seemed that everything I was running through the jointer and planer came out wrong. Instead of flat and true it was convex and getting worse with each pass. And then I found that hand work was quieter, cleaner, and less threatening to valuable body parts. Plus I have been able to double the space in the shop. (And I don't have to cut wide boards down to fit the equipment before re-gluing them.)
Edited 5/22/2007 10:27 pm ET by dherzig
Your lumber supplier can edge joint the lumber better than anyone can. He can also surface plan it and sand it to 120 with a wide belt sander.
Thats what do.
Regards,
Scooter
"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Eric,
Since you appear to be somewhat at the beginning of your woodworking odyssey, I'd recommend learning the hand skills before investing a lot of money into expensive power tools.
But, before buying any tools, buy a couple of books on (hand) tools and woodworking techniques, and read up on what you need, the techniques involved, what to look for in a quality tool, etc. And then feel free to ask (lots of) questions here on Knots: you'll get lots of answers, showing many different perspectives on woodworking and woodworking techniques, based on the experiences and preferences of the writer. Some of those answers will be contradictory to others, as well, and you'll have to sort out which are those that fit your needs.
<<Can I make decent furniture without jointing and planing?>>
Define "decent." IME, to build "decent" (i.e., quality) furniture, you must start out with properly-prepared boards: square, flat, and (usually) parallel. This means jointing and planing, whether by hand or machine methods. Most joinery techniques will not work very well -- if at all -- if your boards are not at least reasonably square and flat.
As far as your immediate "problem," I'd suggest, as one possible solution, taking a look at the hand planes on eBay as a starting place. You can normally pick up some very nice vintage planes for a very reasonable cost that, with a few hours of TLC (aka cleaning & tuning) will give you very satisfactory service. It will also help you get acquainted with your tools.
And keep in mind -- if you don't already know this -- that there are about 42,685 different ways to do each woodworking technique (M & T joints, dovetails, etc.), so there is not necessarily a "right" or "wrong" or "best" way to do something. There are many ways to do the same thing; which one you use is largely determined by your skill level, your tolerance for risk, the tools available to you, time available, personal preference, etc. As long as it's safe and it gives you the results you were looking for, then the whichever method is, at the least, a "good" method.
[Truth in advertising disclosure: I do all of my woodworking using only hand-powered tools, so my perspective and advice will reflect that.]
Good luck, and have fun building your son's book case!!
.
Tschüß!
James
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
-- A.C. Clarke
Scooter,
I will definitely check with my lumber supplier on what preparation services they provide. This could be a good solution until I can do it well enough myself.
James,
Your feedback is appreciated. I definitely want to learn to be self-sufficient. When I say "decent" furniture, I mean something that I would be proud to display in my home alongside the store-bought pieces. When I look at what we get from most furniture stores, and compare it to what I see a lot of folks here producing, there's I think that with enough skill I could make a piece of furniture with better quality than what I could afford to buy.
In the meantime I am looking on eBay for a good handplane to get started with. Since I'll be starting with smaller projects, I'll try to prep my boards by hand and see how it goes. Frankly I find using the big powertools to be a bit stressful, I might enjoy hand-powered tools more.
A couple quick opinions;
Am I going to have to make everything out of plywood with edging?
I think that's an excellent way to proceed on this project and for near term projects. Its quick, the results are good and it sounds like you have the tools and skills required. Its going to take some time to get the skills and tools to work by hand.
Can I make decent furniture without jointing and planing?
Absolutely not. You need to perform these functions. As you guessed, you can do both by hand. Its not all that difficult.
My sense is that these two tools aren't really as important as you think or as important as some here are suggesting. The problem comes in when you need or wish to make something other than a simple butt joint with yellow glue and dry wall screws.
I think the joinery goes hand in hand with the stock prep. So if you want to use simple joinery, you need fairly accurate stock prep. That's basically the state of the art today. 200 years ago the stock prep was less importnat to the finished product, and the joinery was significantly more complicated. I enjoy this sort of work more than the former. I hope you try it because you may like it too. But I guess, in summation, woodworking is complicated and you're going to have to deal with some level of precision somewhere. You get to decide where, though.
Adam
Folks will probably call me coarse, but I've leveled glueups with a RO sander and 60 grit with good results, although it takes quite awhile.
Since I don't have a planer or a jointer either, I've also found that it's easier to deal with commercially available not-quite-straight-or-level wood by ripping it to 2" or 3" strips and gluing it up into panels. By using plenty of pipe clamps I can get quite level from the get-go.
Like I said, this is a pretty brutal way to do things, but until the budget allows for the machinery...
doomed...?? limited...???? Och g'wa n dinna be daft... There's no pre-requesit that your shop has to look like a construction site with machines and power cords covering every square inch of floor space just to build furniture...
All you need are a carefully selected range of hand planes in order to do everything that the demon woodmunchers can do while spending a fraction of the cost, taking up a fraction of the shop space, creating none of the dust and noise and give yourself a free workout while yer at it..
Interested...? research handraulics... the original cordless tools, and still by far and away the best..
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
I have built a house full of furniture without a jointer, planer or hand plane. The money I save on tools, I spend on dimensioned lumber (when I can't find it locally, I find it online). The time I save obsessing over tools, I spend obsessing over how to make do with what I've got. p.s. The only time I chickened out of doing a something myself was joining my seven foot long dining table top. The wood was just too beautiful and expensive to put in harm's way.
p.s.s.I only feel a little guilty about paying over $300 to secretly have a local woodworker do that for me. As Clint Eastwood once said, "A man's got to know his limitations."
Hello Eric,
I somehow manage to do almost everything with handtools. I have done boats, furniture and sculpture and I buy rough wood. A scrub plane, smoother and scraper can do a lot. I made a European style bench and that made the biggest difference in the quality of my work and ability to improve. After about 15 years of woodworking, I did buy a small DeWalt bandsaw and now wish I would have bought it 14 years ago. Some power does make things go quicker though if your working for the relaxiation, handtools are great but if your under time pressure because you need the dresser, the kitchen and so forth, power helps.
Have fun!
Jim
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