There used to be a fair number of good quality non-polyurethane oil varnishes on the market for interior use. For a lot of applications Min-Wax brand polyurethane works just fine but for fine work and certain woods I guess I prefer an old-fashioned alkyd varnish. In the past, I’ve used McCloskey’s and even Sherwin-Williams used to make a good alkyd varnish. Boy, the alkyd varnish I just got from Sherwin-Williams sure isn’t the same stuff. It went on like maple syrup, dried too quickly, and wouldn’t level out. Another local paint store which used to carry McCloskey’s no longer does so. What other brands are still out there? I would prefer to buy the varnish locally but might consider a catalog purchase.
Chip
Replies
Pratt & Lambert no. 38 is an excellent soya alkyd varnish. Clarity and ease of application are outstanding. I use it on all interior applications where varnishis appropriate. I have a fatal aversion to Uralkyds (oil based poly) I think I may have a couple of extra gallons if you happen to be in the Kansas City area.
Michael W
Hey Michael, I realize this com is 15 years old, but do you still have P&L 38? I’m a KC luthier and got a commission for a guitar with a finish like a Velasquez, and Manuel used P&L 38....and I can’t find any.
McCloskey pulled Heirloom from the shelves a few years back when the concern about VOCs was peaking. They reintroduced Heirloom a year or so later with oil added and solvent reduced to satisfy the VOC regulations. If you add a bit of solvent you can get it to behave like it used to with the exception of spraying. The flattening agents don't atomize well so anything other than high gloss won't go through a gun. For brushing I still use Heirloom, it's the best of the alkyds for levelling I've found. I spray Heirloom high gloss and Benwood, a Benjamin moore alkyd that goes through a gun just fine.
Jeff Jewitt sells a brand, something like "Old Master's" or something like that he claims is as good as the old Heirloom. you might give himm a holler.
Lee
No finish is the same today as it was five years ago or, in some cases, last year. All the manufacturers are racing to remove as many VOC emission sources as possible. The biggest source in finishes is the solvents so today's solvent based finishes have had their solvents severely cut back to meet state VOC emission standards. That's also the reason that the labels say "Do Not Thin". If the finish is thinned, it would no longer meet the regulation.
That said, the best thing you can do with todays finishes is to thin then 10-15% with mineral spirits. They will flow out much better and brush easier.
There still are a number of good non-poly varnishes out there. Waterlox makes a couple, McCloskey Heirloom, Pratt&Lambert #38 and Sherwin Williams Fast Dry are a few.
VOC is just one issue. The woodworking hand applied finishes represents a very small market compared to architectual finishes. You formulate where the money is. The ideal architectural finish allows a sanding sealer and possibly two coats in a eight hour day. The alkyd varnishes tend to dry slower and the initial film is softer than polyurethane. The "fast oil" varnish was developed to provide the "feel and look of alkyd varnish" but with the market specified drying time.
I use the Sherwin Williams alkyd varnish for the first time in 1968 and continued to use it until it was discontinued. On inquiry and a consumer vote of displeasure over losing an old friend, the Sherwin Williams representative provided the above explanation back in the mid 1990's.
Varnish is primarily an amateur's product. As you say, it dries to slowly for production work and the slow drying sucks up dust like a vacuum. However on the positive side, it is easy to brush because of its slow dry time. You have plenty of time to work it before it starts to get sticky.Whether a varnish is hard or soft has to do with the resins used and the ratio of oil to resin. There are very hard varnishes like Behlen's Rockhard and Waterlox Origninal Varnish. There are also soft varnishes like marine and exterior varnishes. It depends on the application. Alkyd resins and vegetable oils make for a much lighter colored varnish but it it relatively soft. But, it's cheap to make and does a pretty good job.Sherwin Williams does market an alkyd varnish called Sherwin Williams Fast Dry. I haven't used it but some say it works very well but needs to be thinned slightly to flow out best.Howie.........
Varnish is primarily an amateur's product???
Whoa, I beg to differ. Speed and throughput is not the defining parameter in whether a shop is amateur or professional. Spraying catalyzed lacquer on everything does not make one a pro, or their work better.
I use McCloskey's, though I've had to look around to find it. Better quality paint shops seem to carry it.
I think what he meant by "amateur" was "not high volume production"...Just a guess but it makes sense in the context of the rest of the post.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
You missed the word INITIAL film is soft. The final film after curing can be very hard. Your Waterlox is a paradigm - in four hours after application it can be scratch and sanding leaves a "gummy" ball on the sandpaper. After it fully cures, you can use the sweat from your brow as the lubricant for water/dry sandpaper sanding out a defect in the surface film.My apologies to all for using the word amatuer's product. The appropriate wording would be "custom wood product manufacturers"The S & W fast dry oil varnish uses Toluidene-vinyl resin according to the ingredient list. This resin may have properties similar to alkyd resin but it not the classic alkyd polyester resin. I have found it to produce acceptable results for certain applications.
Thanks to all of you who responded to my question. I've found a local source for the Pratt and Lambert number 38 which several of you mentioned. I'm about to head out to purchase a quart to see how it works. Benwood varnish from Benjamin-Moore is also available locally and might be another possibility.
By the way, it was the "fast-dry" alkyd varnish by Sherwin-Williams that I just had all the problems with. Also, I didn't find that thining the stuff helped at all. It just didn't seem to flow properly even after thining. In defense of the local Sherwin-Williams store, they insisted on refunding my money when I only wanted to drop off the can so that they could dispose of it. They also suggested that the fast-dry nature of the product means that it doesn't level out like the older alkyd varnishes used to do. I don't think I understand the chemistry of all this but, if I can find a product that works like the old stuff did, I'll be happy. Thanks again.
Chip
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