I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw Norm Abram using a scraper on NYW. Didn’t know he owned one.
I couldn’t fathom why he’d use a scraper AFTER considerable sanding; he started with 80-grit. When I use a scraper, I can begin sanding at 220-grit.
From the way he talked about it, an uninformed viewer would probably consider a scraper a pretty esoteric tool. Maybe it is to Norm. After all, a scraper doesn’t have a power cord.
Please don’t misconstrue this as Norm bashing. I applaud his ability to inspire prospective woodworkers, and educate the masses about the virtues of woodworking and woodworkers. I was just surprised that he owned a scraper!
Replies
I agree. I have been a long time NYW fan, even met him once.
I know he has been criticized over the years for his penchant for power tools, particularly by purists, but it never seemed to impact his ability to reach so many people.
I light of this, I have noticed that he seems to be using hand tools a little bit more lately. The recent scraper; more chopping out with chisels; even hand cut some dovetails on a recent episode!
Regardless of the reason, I think it is good to introduce this, even a little bit, into the show. Having been a woodworker for nearly 20 years, I still shake my head at the arsenal he brings out every week. But I can imagine that the new woodworker, could construe that hand tools are "just a slower way to do things" rather than a foundation.
John
I agree too. I like Norm, I like power tools, I like hand tools, I like all tools, and I've had several scrapers for many years.
Enjoy, Roy
I too am happy to see Norm using more hand tools. I was shocked when he hand cut some dovetails. He did use a router to remove some waste though.
But let's not forget who pays the bills for his shows, Delta, P-C, etc. I don't expect to see too much hand work with that sponsorship.
John
"But let's not forget who pays the bills for his shows, Delta, P-C, etc. I don't expect to see too much hand work with that sponsorship."
Hmmmmm...
... I wonder if John Economaki of Bridge City Toolworks, or Tom Lie-Nielsen, could be convinced sponsorship of NYW has some value; or perhaps one of the gentlemen at Hida Tools or The Japan Woodworker.
It would be nice for the folks whose interest has been sparked by Norm could become at least tangentially familiar with some of the hand tools we all use regularly.
Do you suppose the window he has to build something in has anything to do with his using power tools. Most of us use power and hand tools but we aren't fighting a clock to produce a show. We actually see a very small part of the woodworking involved in his building a project. With hand tools we would probably see even less.
Gods Peace
les
I doubt it has little to do with the time constraints of the show since a lot (most?) of the jigs he builds take considerably longer to construct than doing it by hand. Wonder if that may, ultimately, have a negative effect since a beginner may be discouraged from woodworking believing such elaborate jigs are necessary to perform a project.
Jeff
Paul D,
I'll bet there are a significantly large number of us on here whose interest was sparked by Norm and are now migrating to the use of handtools. In my case, Norm made it all seem simple and with enough power tools and well executed plans good things could be produced...the toughest issue was holding the router against the stock.
Notice I said 'interest' and not initial interest. I have always wanted to make stuff but there was no one to teach me how to use handtools. HS woodshop was a joke and convinced me that I was not cut out for making stuff with my hands...(its a coping saw thing). Norm allowed me to rethink that conclusion.
As you make stuff there is a natural migration to hand tool use. You can't level larger and larger table tops with bigger and bigger power tools. Hand tools become prefered as set-up times with power tools or jig making becomes ridiculous. Better joinery like half blind dovetails in a carcas side panel would be pretty tough without hand tools and the list goes on.
Of course learning how to use handtools is a whole nother issue. Norm dosent' even attempt it....nor does anyone else on TV. My sense is if hand tool instruction were more readily available there would be a much greater use or at least a faster migration to their use....except those damn coping saws...
For someone such as I fairly new to this forum, could you please tell me why folks on here do not care much for Norm. To me not having a Father that could teach me anything about woodworking Norm has been a blessing. He makes things simple and easy to understand and he builds interesting projects. Yes he uses power tools, but I dont know anyone who doesn't. Maybe that is why they call it the "NEW" Yankee workshop. If he used all hand tools they would call it the "OLD" Yankee workshop.
Dalewood,
I think most of the participants in this forum have been influenced positivly by Norm and admire him. I know my interest in wood working is much greater than it would have been without him.
In this thread I don't sense any Norm Bashing, just discussing him and his show. Kind of like talking about your favorite baseball team with your buddies who are also fans. You don't always like the way they play but you always want them to win.
John
Thanks John, I had earlier read a discussion entitled "NYW use of brads" that had some ugly things about Norm, and I was just curious.
Like Dalewood i'm a realtive new comer to this forum and pretty new to woodworking (2 yrs) and I've got to agree with him. Norm is almost like a mentor type figure to me and woodworking, watching his show has shown me countless different techniques for joinery and design. I'd have to say my love of woodworking would definatley not be as great without his show to spur me to new ideas, its what's made me pickup books and start trying to understand techniques for executing a plan. Granted I don't always do things the way he does, but no 2 woodworkers are exactly the same, everyone solves problems differently, not to mention the fact that not being a professional I couldn't ever convince my wife i needed a shop equipped with the tools he's got.
But i agree that it is nice to see him using a few more hand tools lately, i'd love to finally master using chisels to hog out dovetails and mortises, not being a professional that's one task that seems to boggle me all the time.
JD
Edited 5/14/2003 10:38:48 AM ET by JDorn
Some are not fond of him because he's a talentless hack.
That was tongue in cheek. But i'm sure someone would have responded in that tone if i hadn't. (also, i expect someone in the next hour or so to say something along the lines of "OH PLEASE! How many times has this been discussed?! If you like him, watch him! If you don't, don't!) Of course i always want to respond, If you want to participate in this discussion, please do, if you don't, then leave us alone
Anyway.
To answer your question, He's disliked for many reasons, some are:
-He uses power tools almost all the time, many times when a hand tool would be quicker, cleaner, and easier. (This indicates that he has sold out, or has to use the tools that are manufactured by the companies that sponser the show)
-He uses brads to secure almost everything, which is not a mark of quality furniture
-His projects are intermediate, and dedicated woodworkers may be bored by the projects.
I love norm, but as i get more and more experienced, i must admit i'm a little bored with the same type of projects, and with the methods he uses.
That being said, when someone bashes him i usually say,
"when you get your own show, you can build whatever you want, however you want"
Dalewood,
"could you please tell me why folks on here do not care much for Norm?"
Norm seems like a true gentleman to me, and he has certainly inspired legions of folks who might not have taken an active interest in woodworking without his influence and charisma.
To me, Norm is a lot like the elementary school teacher who initially inspired me as a musician by providing lots of encouragement and personalized attention, exposed me to lots of different kinds of music, and helped me develop a sense of self-worth.
I still hold this former teacher in high regard and thank him from the bottom of my soul for the role he played during a very important developmental period in my life, despite the fact that, as I continued to develop my skills, I became a far better musician than he was.
I don't believe it is in any way a put-down to wish we could see someone whom we admire continue to grow and develop beyond their extant skill level.
In Norm's case, he has to deal with a multitide of pressures, from Russell Morash, to sponsors, and a large fan base, all of whom want Norm to live up to their expectations. Doesn't sound easy to me. For all I know, Norm could be a devotee of hand planes, spokeshaves, scrapers, and hand-made scratchstocks in his home workshop who has been asked to limit the extent to which those "esoteric" activities are represented on TV.
In short, I like and admire Norm, and wish there was a TV show like NYW that placed as much emphasis on Fine Woodworking as Norm does on beginning to intermediate woodworking.
Hope this answered your question,Paul
What do people think of "Wood Works" on DIY? It's hosted by *blanking for some reason* Marks.
Do y'all think his work is good?
its David Marks.
He's pretty much a power tool guy from what i've seen too, though again he uses different techniques than Norm and I have seen him break out the Rasp and Scraper alot more frequently, and I don't think i've ever seen him break out a brad nailer. The one thing i don't like about his show is that he spends about 1/4 of the show with artsy descriptions of the peices he's been building.
I do alot of video capture and NYW and Woodworks are two shows i get every airing of, if for nothing more than future reference when i need an idea.
JD
His work is good.
But his descriptions of the finished pieces, and the constant reviews of what was done in the last segment are annoying. There's really only about 10 minutes of futage showing him actually work wood.
But what is worse, infinately worse, is his voice. I can't stand the way he talks, my wife makes me change the channel if she is in earshot.
So, to sum up, Woodworks is a great ten minutes of woodworking television, IF you turn the sound off.
David Marks is more interesting to me than Norm. I recently discovered his show, thanks to another thread on this forum. The few episodes I've seen thusfar have exposed me to some new ideas. I have moved beyond the level of expertise that Norm's show is geared towards (even when I was watching him, I never got around to getting a brad nailer, though). I view Norm in the same way that I do Emeril Lagasse on Food TV (the 'BAM' guy). Both are great for getting people interested in trying something new, but neither have anything to teach me personally (at least on their shows). I would imagine than the *real* complaint of many of Norm's detractors is just that - they can't learn anything from Norm's show. It isn't relevant *for them* anymore.
Exactly.
I'm sure that in a one on one situation, Norm could teach a lot more then he is allowed to on his show, which is geared for the masses.
"I couldn't fathom why he'd use a scraper AFTER considerable sanding; he started with 80-grit"
This is a great question. Does anyone know why you would you would scrape after sanding?
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