Replies

1. 
   kennedy136 | Feb 25, 2003 06:18am | #1

   Frank,

            Darn you Frank, now I'm going to have to call Time Warner and request (read pay for ) the DIY channel. LOL  Keep that stuff to yourself will ya.

                                                          Mark

1. 
   Froed | Feb 25, 2003 07:53pm | #7

   If you get HGTV, Woodworks is on Saturday at 7:00 AM.  They call it a special presentation, so I don't know how long that'll last.

1. 
   DustyTom | Feb 25, 2003 08:13pm | #8

   I've been watching the Saturday edition of Woodworks for a couple of months now. David has inspired me to try new techniques without fear. The web pages at DIY closley match the show so you can take your time and study how he does things. I recently made his Demilune table which I wouldn't have tried before. It now sits proudly in our front hall for all the worl to see! Keep up the good work David.

2. 
   kennedy136 | Feb 25, 2003 08:45pm | #9

   Froed,

            Thanks for the heads up.  I do get HGTV and I will try to at least tape the show so I can see what it's all about.

                                                           Mark

3. 
   Cephus | Feb 26, 2003 01:17am | #11

   Woodworks shows on HGTV just before NYW on Saturday.  It also shows on Saturday evening on DIY with a one-hour block at 10pm EST/7pm PST, usually showing the program that was on HGTV the day before, plus another one.

   Marks is absolutely amazing as a craftsman and artist.

1. 
   Froed | Feb 26, 2003 05:00pm | #17

   Cephus, thanks for the info.  The Professor thought he was going to have to get DIY to see it, but it's on HGTV Saturday mornings (for now) between reruns of TOH & NYW.  I don't have DIY either, so that's when I see it.  Used to be on Sunday, too, but they changed it.  He has a good manner, and I like his style, but as someone else said, I could do without the recap after every commercial.

   Froed

1. 
   BiotechBill | Feb 27, 2003 12:53am | #21

   As for the format issues, I don't have a problem with it. Here on the West Coast, he comes on at 4:00 AM, thus in my house he is always on tape. I hold the FF button just a second longer and... TaaaDaa! The repeat is gone!

   You have to love his tools though... Multirouter, 12" jointer, 20" planer. He must have a $100,000 shop!

   Dr. Bill ($3500 garage/shop)

2. 
   mmww | Feb 27, 2003 01:03am | #22

   My two cents (FWIW) on David Marks?. I must admit that I love the concept of the show. It?s nice to see a show done by a professional woodworker using his own choice of tools and not a 1/2-hour commercial for the company with the biggest advertising budget. Having said that? I wish David would stop using the Multi-Router, I mean really?beautiful machine, but the? average Joe? could greater benefit from seeing more affordable and creative ways of making mortise and tenon joints!

   I wonder if anyone else would appreciate an episode or two covering topics like; setting up a shop. Shop layout and work flow. Proper technique, design and fabrication of useful jigs. What to look for in a machine. And maybe even the odd field trip. I saw that Scott Phillips paid a visit David?s shop?what an idea! I would love to see a quick tour of somewhere like the College of the Redwoods or a short interview with the likes of Gary Rogowski, Bill Hylton or Garrett Hack. Don?t get me wrong, he does beautiful work, albeit not all of it is my taste, but I still learn something from every show. Although I do find that a lot of techniques are repeated, bent lamination for instance. How about steam bending instead?

   The format kills me, thank god for TIVO! My technique of fast forwarding past the recap with stunning accuracy has my wife in stitches! And why is it that a lot of people?s wives have a problem with David? I myself hear questions like?Why does he always wear those blue shirts? Why does he talk that way? Why does he ramble about continuity, harmony and all those expletives that make you feel like your watching Designing for the Sexes! Why are you never that clean when you?re in your shop? All valid questions in my mind. Maybe the producers feel that the abundant tattoos on his arms may look too ?Easy Rider? for the general public. I for one would like to see a little more of the down to earth ?roll up your sleeves (show the tattoos) grab a beer and let?s talk wood sort of approach!?

   Let?s face it if the recap is for the benefit of those with short attention spans or channel surfers, well I think that the advanced concept of the show would be far beyond the scope of those type of people anyway. I would imagine that most people who watch the show (unlike a lot of students) want to pay attention and learn. If you walked in late to a lecture, do you honestly think that you would get the benefit of a recap?I think no would be the answer.

   Well I guess that was more like two bucks than two cents! Once again, I really appreciate the show; I certainly hope that Woodworks will start a trend of quality craftsmanship style shows. ?Pine?s nice but how about some nice Wenge to accent that Tiger Maple veneer to give it a sense of harmony!? Sorry I just couldn?t resist!

   All the best? Steve Mac

3. 
   mikkimel | Feb 27, 2003 01:19am | #23

   I just laughed coffee out my nose.

   The harmony comment was dead on, made me laugh out loud, and cringe at the same time.  His voice drives me up the wall!

4. 
   TomFerreira | Feb 27, 2003 04:53am | #26

   I guess that was my take on the show also. I even said to my wife that here is a guy working in the shop wearing dockers and a pressed shirt. I don't know about you guys but I'm usually covered in sawdust.

   I think David is okay but maybe the half hour project is limiting. I think Norm, Scott and Roy suffer form the same limitation.

   TDF

5. 
   patternmaker | Feb 27, 2003 01:33pm | #27

   These shows make me look like an tyro.

   My great grandson says that it takes me several days to do the same job these fellers do in thirty minutes.

   ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬Pat¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Feb 26, 2003 06:37am | #14

     

     I must confess, I don't like the show.  It's not the projects, or Mr. Marks, its the blasted format.  I hate the rehash after they come back from the commercials.  What is it, a two maybe three minute laps of time since we just saw him doing the actual project?!!!!!  Cripes that bugs me.  If they'd just let him go and not try to make it so "watcher friendly", I'd watch it religiously. 

    

                            Steve

1. 
   hmthomas | Feb 26, 2003 04:51pm | #15

   Steve, relax and enjoy the show. His style & craftsmanship allow me to overlook the insulting rehashing after the comercial breaks. I rarely watch "48 Hours" on CBS for the same reason however. I get insulted when they play back the show after each break (just in case the simple audience couldn't follow the heavy plot).

   I enjoyed your arguements over on the Quote of the day thread, I personally don't have the background or the desire to even stick my toe in over there. Nobody can win that one. 

   Hugh

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Feb 26, 2003 08:50pm | #18

   Hugh,

       He does build some nice looking pieces, thats for sure.  I keep hearing that people have shorter attention spans now days, I wonder if TV's low expectations have anything to do with that?

       Glad you enjoyed the scrum over on the Quotes thread.  Sometimes you feel like you'd be better off just yelling at the wall though.  It's nice to have a venue were we can switch from a political dispute to a discussion on the merits of water based poly just like that.  Fun place this Knots.

                     Steve

2. 
   Cephus | Feb 27, 2003 04:32am | #24

   I never saw it as a recap for the stupid, but a "for those just tuning in".  As I tape all his shows, it's simple to just skip past the recap after fast forwarding throug the commercials.

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Feb 27, 2003 04:40am | #25

       

        This thought just jumped into my head,  I need one of those TIVO recording satellite receivers so I can edit it to my liking.  Cool, I was just looking for a reason!

                       Steve

2. 
   mikkimel | Feb 26, 2003 04:59pm | #16

   Steve, i have to agree with you, David is incredibly talented, but the format bugs me as well.  And they way he talks drives me up the wall.  My wife makes me change the channel because she can't stand him either.  Usually i turn the sound off and watch.

   But like i said, that's just me, and i'm not normal.  (i have to pull the batteries out of every clock within a 50 foot radius of me when i sleep, the ticking keeps me up)

   But heres a question for everyone.  Norm is bashed for his constant use of power tools, how do you guys feel about David's tool choices? Just to further the conversation.

1. 
   dirtstirrer | Feb 26, 2003 08:58pm | #19

      Oh yea, the voice, sometimes I wonder if he could ever get excited.  I've got a friend who sounds exactly like Mr. Marks.  I can't stand talking to him on the phone.

       As for David's tool selection, it seems appropriate for the type of stuff he builds.  My tool selection is a lot different, but it is fun to see it done another way.  Seems like he is influenced a lot by Japanese woodworking techniques maybe?

                    Steve

3. 
   Knotme1 | Feb 26, 2003 09:29pm | #20

   Steve,

   I agree with you about the format.  I just wanted to take a moment to offer why DIY uses that format.  I am in the education business and make frequent presentations.  One rule is to assume the attention span of the audience is about 6 to 8 minutes before the mind wanders off to something else.  I frequently tell the audience, "what I'm going to tell you, then tell you, then tell you what I told you."  This is meant to reinforce learning.  Of course, those of us that watch the show intend to remain interested and don't need the rehash after commercials.  This can also be used to benefit channel surfers who are switching back and forth so they can also watch something else.  Seems like its a bit insulting or sometimes patronizing but I think the producers are trying to reinforce the "teaching" model.

   Todd

2. 
   hmthomas | Feb 25, 2003 06:26am | #2

   Thanks for bringing up David Marks. I watch him whenever possible. I like his style. West coast style, generally witha hint of Oriental influence.  He makes a much nicer product than the other guys and the show is just a classier production. Check out his website at  http://www.djmarks.com/index.html

3. 
   BarryO | Feb 25, 2003 06:42am | #3

   Agreed!!!

   Man, he makes nice, classy stuff.  And I almost always learn a new technique whenever I watch.

   Plus, he's never trying to sell you   g o d - awful Minwax 1-step finishes.

   As for getting the DIY channel, I don't understand why anyone still has cable - satellite is cheaper, with alot more channels.

1. 
   timberrattler | Feb 25, 2003 05:36pm | #5

   if you get TIVO via satellite you'll never miss a show again. You may also never get into the shop again

1. 
   davamoore | Feb 25, 2003 06:21pm | #6

   Covering all of my bases, as usual, I'm signed up for a week-long class with David Marks later this spring, and I'm reading a short book of essays on tools by Norm Abrams.  "Norm-bashing" here has gone well beyond kicking a dead horse... I think we're now kicking the crows that are feeding off the dead horse!  (Just do a search on Knots... how many thousands of posts have been made on the subject?)

   I like them both.  PR agents and TV producers aside, neither man appears to pretend to be anything other than what they are; Norm, for example, regularly calls himself a carpenter -- and with well-deserved pride.  As such, I learn from both.

   David"The world that was not made is not won by what is done" -- Mundaka Upanishad

2. 
   JeffKurtz | Feb 27, 2003 04:47pm | #28

   Tried the satellite route a couple years ago.  Couldn't watch different channels on different sets; was out of service at least one day a week; no local programming; a lot of solar interference; no high speed, broad band internet service.

   Needless to say, I switched back to cable, and love my Road Runner.  Beep-beep.

   Jeff

4. 
   gpwest | Feb 25, 2003 10:33am | #4

   I enjoy him also, and watch every time I can remember he's on.  I have one suspicion though: he always wears dark clothing, but I have yet to ever see even a speck of sawdust on him.   Why?    GP

5. 
   JamesC67 | Feb 25, 2003 10:11pm | #10

   Frank and to all the other members,

   Like yours I've made my daily run through the latest post's. And like yours I stop and read whatever happens to catch my attension as being interesting.  It took me quite a lot longer here on knots today probably becouse I usally stop and read any posts that has to do with Norm.   Like a lot of you I like to give credit where credit is due.  With Norm I rarely miss his show mainly becouse he as a craftsman has many good ideas and has done more than any other to pass along his woodworking expierence and skill.  Luckily for us he has been there to spearhead and be at the forfront of the woodworking shows of today.  I know that a lot of folks don't care for Norm or for that matter Bob Vila but again without them and the fortunate forsite of people like Russell Morash we wouldn't be enjoying any of the woodworking shows or for that matter even craft shows becouse quite frankly before all the so called founding fathers we didn't have HGTV or even a DIY network.  As far as The New Yankee Workshop goes if it were not for sponcers and people wanting to see their products on TV personally I don't think even Norm would have all the stuff to work with. Technically Norm doesn't becouse I read somwhere that the shop on TV belongs to Russ.It seems that a lot of peolpe are more upset at the equipment that Norm uses than his skills as a woodworker again it only makes good buisness sence if you have a product that you want a lot of peolpe to see then you put it on a popular TV show or somplace out in public that has to do with that product where a lot of peolpe can see it. With Delta/ Porter Cable the smartest thing they ever did was sponser the New Yankee Workshop. I've been reading Norm's book "Measure Twice Cut Once" to me it's been a pretty good book. No it's not fine liturature but then again it's not met to be it is what it is a book about what Norm knows and thinks about Carpentry. The reason I mension this is in his book he says a few times "In my own shop I have this or that kind of tool" Now personally this tells me he has a private personal shop away from the new yankee shop and personally I don't beleive his personal shop has all the toys that the set workshop has but then again maybe I interpeted it wrong.  As far as Norm using a brad nailer or taking certain short cuts that doesn't bother me becouse realistically we all know he has a tite schedule so he has to do what he can to speed up the process of building and creating a project also like Norm I have a brad nailer and at no time do I use them without glue or some other kind of fastener becouse we all know the structual integrety just would not be there. Also new and upto date tools doesn't bother me becouse if anyone ever read about the Shaker's and the Shaker community they used the best and most modern tools money could buy it's just the technology wasn't there back then for them to have routers and air nailers just to name a couple. If you don't think I know what I'm talking about how come the Omish of this day and age have figured ways to use modern tools its becouse one, it's easier and two it only makes good buisness sence to modernise and upgrade to make things easier. I use the Omish mainly becouse their way of life is as close to the way our forfathers of many years ago had to live. Personally I just can't see myself tying up my horse and buggy and going in a modern day shop and using modern day tools . Personally I like to watch Roy becouse I think it's very important for me as woodworker to not forget where,how and with what my forfathers of long ago did woodworking. To put Norm Abrahm and Roy Underhill in the same class would be like saying Apples and Oranges are the same thing. Now with David Marks and peolpe like him that don't have major tool sponcers like Norm has I think they are more like the common everyday woodworker it's like if you took a television camera in your shop's and have them watch your every move (EEEEEEEGADS what a revolting thought.) Then we all could set back and criteak your every move that you may do that looks differant or out of the ordinary. Well fellow sawdust makers I hope you can forgive me for this being so long but I just felt compelled to throw my hat into the ever growing Norm debate so again Happy Woodworking and I hope this finds all of you doing well and creating a lot of cindling to keep warm with. (BRRRRRR) it's cold here in Michigan.

   Sincerely,

    James Clark at the "PUTTERIN YANKEE"woodworking shop

1. 
   Cephus | Feb 26, 2003 01:19am | #12

   Yes, you're right, the shop belongs to Russ Morash and the tools, for the most part, are on semi-permanent loan from the manufacturers.  Theoretically, if NYW ever goes off the air, they have to be given back, but I doubt they'd ever ask.

   The shop that David Marks uses is his own, with his own tools.  Who knows if Norm even HAS his own shop.

2. 
   Frank | Feb 26, 2003 02:45am | #13

   Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Norm or Roy. I have spent many enjoyable hours watching both of them. They rekindled my love of woodworking that had been put on the back burner for too long. I still watch NYW ( I can't find Underhill on tv anymore) but as my woodworking skills have advanced so has my desire to see what I consider better craftmanship, hense David Marks. Norm does have his own shop in the new house he built a few years ago. Marks tv show is in his own shop.

                          Frank