I sit and watch the tail end of your Florida hurricanes batter my garden, wind howling and rain streaming down, and flick on the TV to watch Uncle Norm.
Again, he makes no mistakes. Never cuts anything too short, never cuts a finger off, even though he never uses guarding on his table saw….but the finished article is always excellent, be it a shaker wot not, or an egg cup holder………..
BUT THEN……..
Which chump gives him that 8 inch paint brush and lets him loose with that stain and gloss varnish!!!!!!!!!….( ohhh and that rag to wipe everything off he has just put on!)
What a disaster. I am afraid my wife would not entertain that finish in any room at home. Nor would my great gran , and she is as blind as a bat!!!
Why doesn’t he either spray, or traditionally polish…or at least send it to a good finishing shop that will compliment the joinery he does??
Replies
Much though I owe Norm a huge debt for getting me up offa my butt and making something......rather than sitting watching... thinking.. "I could make that, if I only had a ......." I gotta agree...
DHL screened a repeat of the cherry chest on chest this afternoon which looked beautiful right up until the cherry stain was used... I couldn't suppress the cringe...
Sorry Norm..
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
My sense is that his finishing schedule is mandated by the need to quickly and effectivbely mask the extensive use of his nailgun. But then, I am not exactly a Norm fan.
Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Who is this Norm? It is an interesting choice of name:
In Australia 'Norm' was the name of a couch potato used by the national government department of health in a cartoon advertising campaign to get the country offit's but and start living (read 'regular exercise' and kite flying counts). That started 10 or so years ago, and Norm is now part of the national dialect.
Hi Patto,
Well, Norm is Norm Abram. He does a T.V. show called "The New Yankee Workshop."
He travels to different places and finds pieces of furniture, then builds them in his workshop. He builds 2 pieces, one piece serves as the prototype,and,the second one he builds right there on T.V. for everyone to see. It's meant to be educational T.V. if you want to call it that. It's basically a 30 minute program. Also you can buy the plans for each and every project, along with a video of said program. There is a website if you want to check it out.
Those daring young men in their flying machines!
Edited 8/24/2004 8:38 pm ET by f4phanatic
Norm is a good production carpenter, not a cabinet maker. I'm surprised he doesn't spray everything. I know why he doesn't do traditional fine finishes. Time.
Hi Bob,
A couple of months ago, Norm actually spray finished a project. Having just walked in the door after spending a long day at work, I caught the tail of it. For the life of me I cannot remember the project. He did have a spray booth built out of what looked like 2x2 and poly plastic sheeting on 2 sides the back and the top. It was outdoors against the back wall of his shop. He should have built a nice finishing room with a spray booth in it instead.
Those daring young men in their flying machines!
Wow. I missed that one. Given his other equipment, I would have expected a 25 horse compressor and a full booth with moon suit. I guess Delta doesn't make a spray booth so he's not allowed to use one. All his projects are designed to be simple so long as you own $87,000 worth of Delta machinery. I did actually see him use a chisel and plane once.
I absolutely enjoy each time he says "and I find, the best way to <insert simple task here> is with a <insert power tool with a complicated set-up and need for multiple test cuts here>". Arggghh -- pick up a chisel, dovetail saw, scraper, whatever, just stop it saying you know the best way!
Hi Bob,
Hey, anyone can build a decent spraybooth. Andy Charron in his book "Spray Finsihing" has photos and layouts of spraybooths. I imagine if Accuspray, DeVilbiss, Sharp, or Axispro were to dump some $$$$ in Russ Morash's pocket, Norm would be doing spray finishing more often. Unless Delta's got some sort of deal with the contract! I know Norm will never do a french polish because of time constraints, but there is a product that does a french polish in 1 easy step! Can't remember who, but it might be Behlen's that makes it!?
I have the plans for my dream shop 95% complete in my head, don't know if I'd put that much in tools into it, after all $10,000 for a Woodtek 36" wide belt sander is too rich for my blood. Don't get me wrong I've used wide belt sanders, and I think they are wonderful! But I've got to be practical. And doesn't The New Yankee Workshop get some of those tools donated for sponsorship!?
Those daring young men in their flying machines!
Edited 8/25/2004 11:27 am ET by f4phanatic
did you see him make the antique pine combination piece of furnature where he planed the wood on a (I believe) 36" planer? Last time I checked the cost of one of those was $9990.00! I just wish I could afford a few corner clamps!
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
"did you see him make the antique pine combination piece of furnature where he planed the wood on a (I believe) 36" planer? Last time I checked the cost of one of those was $9990.00! I just wish I could afford a few corner clamps!"
Hmmmm .. well, the only 36" "planer" I've seen is a 36" wide belt sander -- there IS a difference.
Whatever one may say to try to denigrate the PBS series, it's simply a matter of economics. The 'workshop' is not Norm's -- it's Ross's. Since forever, PBS stations and producers have the benefit of tax-deductible donations from you, me, Delta, Porter-Cable and whoever and whatever.
For all of your (and our) jealousy, we'd accept the same donations if we were worthy -- or had the right connections!!!
Bill Arnold
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Oh, almost forgot -- I bet Norm can spell furniture correctly! Check YOUR post!!!
Bill Arnold
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
His accent kills me (what the heck is a "measured drarwring" anyway?) but of course people from other parts of the country likely don't even notice...you've just got to remember 1) We talk normal 2) Y'all talk funny and 3) God talks like us. It's a fact. Look it up.
I always cringe when he grabs that nail gun..."and now just a few brads in it just to make sure...blam, blam, blam (stop, no, stop!)...blam, blam, blam." What is he afraid will happen if doesn't put 300 nails in every joint?
Worst part, honestly, is people (potential customers) watch that show and therefore think they know so much about making furniture. They come to my shop (with their wives) and say "where is your radial arm saw? How can you work without a radial arm saw?" or "why don't you have one of those big sanders like Norm has?" AAARRRRGGG!
Hi el papa,
A radial arm saw! Yeah I'd have one if I had to do something like cut dados on a 6x6.
Those daring young men in their flying machines!
I don't think we need to bag on the guy. The plain fact of the matter is that many of us got into woodworking because of Norm Abrams. Even those of you who didn't, still owe Norm his due since a portion of the boom in woodworking interest is attributable to him. This makes woodworking tools more available to all of us. I used to watch him, I no longer do, having found alternate sources of information more in tune with where I am as a woodworker now. I still appreciate my roots, however. If it wasn't for Norm, I wouldn't be writing this reply today.
He does make some pretty neat stuff, and I think he really used to shine when he started on "This Old House" and would demonstrate old-time carpenter tips and techniques in order to fix-up those old houses. Some of that stuff is a "lost art" and he should be applauded for preserving it for us all.
On the other hand...I wish he would do a series of simple, entry level projects with the beginner in mind. Stick to siimple techniques and tools! Show people how to use and adjust a bandsaw for example. Or explain why kiln dried lumber is essential and how glue works. Or how to properly sand a table top to make it flat. Although his "sponsors" might bail out I think his viewers would benefit greatly.
I wonder about his core viewers. He will show, step-by-step, how to build a sophisticated antique reproduction with a bunch of very pricey and large tools. So then I wonder; if somebody can't figure out how to build a piece of furniture do they likely own that 42" belt sander? Reminds me of owner's manuals for new cars...they actually tell how to open the glove box (along with a drawing with black arrows showing how to twist the knob) which brings to mind the thought "Do we really want somebody who cannot figure out how to open a glove box to drive a car?"
Edited 8/25/2004 2:31 pm ET by el papa
Reminds me of owner's manuals for new cars...they actually tell how to open the glove box (along with a drawing with black arrows showing how to twist the knob) which brings to mind the thought "Do we really want somebody who cannot figure out how to open a glove box to drive a car?"
Not to mention: the manual for the car is invariably located in the glove box.
Charlie
I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I too would like to see what you have expressed in your post as well as a video on joinery or how about a survey of practical ways to join 2 peices of wood without using a brad nailer. Boy do I hate the thought of using one of those thing. The videos featuring Norm are the same as the broadcast shows so you get nothing extra. You are better off ecomomically just taping them instead of purchasing them from TNYW.
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
I enjoy Norm's show. But I don't feel I "owe Norm his due". His dues have been repaid to him many times over from book sales,videos and his tv shows.
He's made woodworking more popular; it's great that many more folks can enjoy it. But this has nothing to do with making professional grade tools "more available to all of us". If you meant the homeowner variety, well, those tools lead mostly to frustration and rarely to fine woodworking. A top of the line Unisaw in constant dollars cost the same today as it did ten years ago.
I was working wood before Norm was a star, and though he does some things well, safety is not one of them.This leads hobbyists to think they are operating safely in a shop when they are not.
Jackplane,
No argument with you concerning the safe use of power tools, Norm could definitely be more aware of the techniques he is demonstrating and how they might be perceived by a new woodworker.
As to tools being more available, with a handle like "jackplane" I am surprised you missed my point. Taking planes for example, Knight Toolworks, Lie Nielsen, St. James Bay, and Veritas (Lee Valley) manufacture quality planes today that weren't available prior to the advent of shows like Norm's. Even though Norm doesn't use handplanes (other than a block plane every once in awhile) a lot of people began by watching Norm, started woodworking, and at some point slid down the slippery slope and developed a love for hand tools which supports these companies today. After World War II there was no US manufacturer who made a handplane that was worth anything. Now there are a number of plane manufacturers who make quality products all filling the demand that shows like "New Yankee Workshop" originally awakened.
On the power tool side, not all of us can afford a Unisaw but there are a plethora of aftermarket companies selling rip fences today for upgrading contractors saws that we can afford. Again, the demand for these fences developed as a result of shows like Norm's.
I know the path for professionals like yourself was different and you owe nothing to Norm but woodworkers who are such by avocation rather than vocation do owe Norm his due (respect).
This is a bit like a mail order thread a few weeks ago. I started 'serious' solo craft work as a 12 year old doing leather work. We had to keep Imperial (stuff you call 'standard') rulers in the house because all of the impedimata were sourced from the US.
We were grateful then that the US can generate such a huge market from amateurs that companies are prepared to supply tools. The same has happened with woodwork, and it stems from people like Norm. BTW, a local woodworker here has developed a nice little market for half finished tables that comes directly from this norm process. The approach is that a chap will bring his wife in to buy timber, she is nervous about his capacity to finish a job with high entry costs, the woodworker offers to complete the joinery and difficult (Needs clamps) assembly; the customer gets to do the time consuming finishing. They all go away happy.
Our last equivalent was an ex Rock Singer who went by the name of Shirley Straun, good singer in the 70's hard rock era. He had been a house carpenter and had a segment on a show that did entry level furniture often out of radiata. He used the tools commonly found in a home shop set up for a couple of thou. I know a number of people who progressed from that to some nice stuff. Unfortunately he drove a helo into a hill a couple of years ago.
Although I took a shot at Norm, I agree with you; like I said earlier, I owe him a lot. Norm taught me to believe that I CAN build pretty much anything I set my mind to, it's just a matter of doing the job logically, being methodical and paying attention to detail. What I've learned for myself is that I don't NEED all the fancy tools he has, although I'll freely admit that having a few of them would make things a lot easier, but I still get the job done without them.
As for the finishing... his choice of finish reflects his taste, as my choices reflect mine, and that's OK.. it'd be pretty boring if everything was finished exactly the same way. I guess that's what I love about woodworking; there's so much scope for self expression in a piece that can be as beautiful as it is functional...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
There used to be a pair on one of the home-improvement channels called
"The Futniture guys", who seemed to really know how to apply all kinds of stains and finishes. Not sure what ever happened to them, they were
"unique"
JoeRenaissance RestorationsAntique & Victorian Home Restoration Serviceshttp://www.renaissancerestorations.com
"The Furniture Guys." Not sure what ever happened to them, they were "unique" ...
Unique is a good word...like the time they built a deck around a hot tub then, at the end of the show, came out in drag. Free spirits, for sure!
http://www.furnitureguys.com
Bill Arnold
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Joe,
Apparently Ed (the fat one) couldn't cope with the success of their furniture show (they won Cable Ace awards) and wanted a change. It looks like he wanted any change, not necessarily a change for the better.
They began a new show called "Men in Toolbelts." A new show, but no new ideas. They went from a unique show to one that's already been done to death by others: the new show was nothing more than various construction projects around the house. They engaged in their usual antics, but that wasn't enough to keep me--and most others--interested.
The last time I saw "Men..." it was on an obscure cable network and there were no new shows--all re-runs.
That's sad. I learned a great deal from their furniture show and I was entertained in the process.
Alan
Norm is God. uh, no wait, Clapton is God.
Poor old Norm under all this scrutiny. He must be just sobbing all the way to the bank. Ah well, sticks and stones...
I've been a carpenter for 40 years and had my home shop also. I like Norm's show and have learned from it. These tv shows depend on BIG Buck sponsers and have to get the project done in one or two half hour shows. I know everyone won't be pleased with all the projects. If he did all hand cut dovetails and chopped mortises by hand the show would be like the old time sat. afternoon matinee with the weekly serial episode where you had to come back each week to see Tex shoot the bad guys or watch Norm cut another dovetail. It's easy to be a master cabinet maker when your sitting at a computer running down other peoples projects. If you want all hand work watch THE WOODRIGHTS SHOP.
ps. I like Roy Underhill too.
iIwish we got that Roy Underhillshow here in NH. We used to but it was supplimented by some computer geek show. That Underhill guy is worth watching. He sweats more than I do........now you know he is working and not letting the crew do all the set ups and he steps in for the action shots.
"Poor old Norm under all this scrutiny. He must be just sobbing all the way to the bank."
Jer,
There's little doubt that Russ Morash has become very wealthy as a result of the many programs he's produced for PBS (it's his shop that Norm works in).
I'd be more than a little curious to learn how generous Morash has been with Norm, Tom Silva, Julia Child, and others who have made Morash's success possible.
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Obviously television can not be interpreted as "real life", especially a 1/2 hour show. Take 5 minutes to go visit a local shop, another 5 minutes to discuss the history of the piece, and you gotta haul a** to get the project done in the other 20 minutes, minus commercials. I enjoy David Mark's show on DYI. He tackles complex projects, and skips the stuff most people already know. On the opposite end of the spectrum is another show on DYI, I believe hosted by Bruce Johnson (?). He makes Norm look like an all-encompassing master cabinetmaker, but the show is geared towards beginners.
The bottom line is: those guys have television contracts, I do not, and would not want to. At that level, however, some sacrifices must be made to condense a project, no matter how simple or complex, into a 1/2 hour show.
Because most of what Norm builds is antique reproduction work..when they didnt have fancy spray equipment and the like..My guess is He is going for that "old/used look...
JC
Yesterday afternoon I was in the millde of assembling 29 panel doors for a kitchen and, in my spare brain space was thinking about Norm and how he pushed me to the next level of woodworking many years ago. I happened to look at my watch and saw it was 5:30, and since I had just completed a door thought I'd take a 30 minute break and watch Norm's show.
Alas, it's been so long since I watched his show I didn't realize it now comes on at 5:00, followed by Hometime (now, there's a program that could use some bashing!) at 5:30. Who knows how many weeks or months will pass before the planets align and I will find myself at a logical stopping point at 5:00 on Saturday...
This forum seems to sponsor a Norm-bashing thread every month or so, and as usual, there are supporters and detractors. I guess we all have strong opinions about something. I learned a lot about what tools to use for which operation; however, it was up to me to actually learn to use the tool for the task.
The problem of missing Norm or David has been solved in our household by having a cable box with DVR. I have the unit setup to record both of these series at whatever time they run. Then, I can watch them at my leisure.
Years ago when I started watching Norm, I doubted that I could ever build some of the projects shown on NYW. But, I kept hacking away and began to do more complex projects. I've probably watched the older programs (shown on DIY or HGTV) an average of three times each and never seem to tire of watching them. There are many of the procedures Norm uses that I wouldn't dream of doing myself now -- like finish nails and brads through the face of an item. I'll take the time to add biskets or whatever and clamp the assembly until it's set. I think the only thing I've ever built from NYW is the workbench, but I know the basic procedures Norm teaches are with me forever.
David Marks (Wood Works) creates pieces that are more appealing to me now. I'd never have some of his items in my house, but the overall style and techniques are an inspiration to me.
Then there's the "expert", Bruce Johson -- don't get me started! Being an avid woodworker, I looked forward to another offering on television. By the time he was half way through the first episode, I was so appalled at his ineptness that I felt like writing to the network. The procedures he used were, I felt, extremely unsafe especially for a beginner, the target audience. I watched a couple more episodes and couldn't bear to go any further with him. I laugh whenever I hear a promo for his program now.
Ah, well -- thanks for hearing me out. Be kind to each other.
Bill Arnold
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Thanks for your reply, Bill. I enjoyed your comments and agree that you don't have to like the projects demonstrated to learn good (or even not-so-good) woodworking techniques.
I think the tendency is to bust on Norm because 1) he has lots of tools that are donated by Delta and other companies, and it's hard not to be a little jealous of what he has to work with, 2) his projects are completed in a 30 minute program when most of us know that a single setup for certain operations take as long if not more that 30 minutes, and 3) we know enough about finishing to realize his techniques deliver less than optimal results considering the alternatives out there.
But I think is's safe to say that he got many of us started in far better woodworking techniques that we started with, and for that I am personally grateful.
I had the chance to meet Mr. Abrams at a woodworking show several years ago and must say he is a most gracious and pleasant human being. I don't think he's in it for the money or he would have quit a long time ago.
I agree with you that those who bust on Norm are jealous -- even those in the trade. Why be jealous? Norm was in the right place at the right time with the right personality to get the job. After a lifetime of sitting behind a desk, I worked in cabinet shops the past two years and most the guys there couldn't stand the guy. It's beyond me.
I'm surprised at your comment about Norm doing all projects in a 30-minute program. It's obvious there's a lot of editing. In today's PBS airing, it was apparent from his comments that the project covered three days. The NYW 'About' page states: "Norm completes a typical show in two days. He does all the work himself, using an assistant only for cleanup and finishes."
Agreed that Norm got many of us started on better techniques. I was amazed at the percentage of guys in the shops who would challenge me on a particular technique, tellling me they learned it a certain way 23 years ago and not to tell them there's any other right way to do it. Of course, then you could line up 6 of those guys and find them using 6 different techniques to accomplish the same task!
Sorry if this seems like a rant. It was not intended to be so. Guess I'm getting old enough to speak my piece now.
Take care.
Bill Arnold
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Thanks, Bill. Please understand my remark about projects being finished in 30 minutes was facetious...I know very well that they take Norm the two or so days you cite. On the other hand, I've actually heard people say "There's no way you can build that in 30 minutes..."
Maybe we should suggest that an elapsed time clock be displayed on the screen showing the actual time spent at each stage of the project...
Patience. That may be the most important thing I finally began to learn by watching both Norm and David Marks. I took your remark about the 30 minutes as being facetious and agree that an elapsed-time clock would be an excellent idea. Norm is good about saying something like, "That's about it for today; tomorrow we'll build the doors" or something similar. David says things like "take your time"; "don't rush"; "this project will take a while". For a long time, I thought I had to do a project fast to prove I was good; now I understand the importance of having the patience to do it right the first time.
Bill Arnold
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Bill, I absolutely agree with you. For me, patience was critical, as well as making myself start over rather than accept an imperfect joint or out-of-square setup. Even though I now do woodworking for a living, I don't let myself be bound by my time estimates; usually, one task will take longer and another shorter, so it all works out in the end. And if I'm totally off base (as I am now on a curly maple kitchen) I tell myself it will be a beautiful job and to remember to double the hours next time I'm asked to work with highly figured wood.
One other thing: I make myself recheck settings on all my tools at least once a day. Namely, is everything cutting square and vertical, are blades clean and lubed, and is there enough coffee in the house. Have a great day
"For a long time, I thought I had to do a project fast to prove I was good; now I understand the importance of having the patience to do it right the first time."
There are only two times a woodworker hurries: Just before the accident, and immediately after!
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
When I first started watching Norm I often wonder why he did not go into more detail, show mistakes or finish his projects better. Then it dawn on me several years ago while watching another woodworking show. Rus Morash knows what he is doing. He is not making a show to teach the real woodworker how to make an item-he is doing a woodworking soap opera! By not going into the details of woodworking he makes the program interesting to the layman, which makes up most of the audience. That is why he is right up there with All My Children and General Hospital. Don't kid yourself-Morash knows what he is doing!! The 20 year run of New Yankee Workshop proves it!
Does Russ Morash know what he's doing?
Well, he was the one who talked the late Julia Child into doing a cooking show; then later on, he started the Victory Garden, which is still going strong.
Far as I know, he's never had a clinker.
"Does Russ Morash know what he's doing? "
Well, he's managed to get tool, wood and supply manufacturers and distributors to contribute to the NYW series to the degree that he has a personal shop with enough stuff to be the envy of most everyone.
Bill Arnold
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
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