Replies

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 30, 2006 10:26pm | #1

   Use a narrow smoother, a No. 3 for instance, and grind a pronounced camber into the iron.  You may have to re-grind the chipbreaker as well.  Under this scenario,  you will work the texture in at the smoothing stage which I think is the best route to take. 

   On extraordinarily well behaved stock you could use a scrub plane with a teentsie bit of blade showing but you don't have the advantage of a tight mouth and chip breaker to help prevent tearout.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/30/2006 3:28 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute

1. 
   Winchester | Oct 30, 2006 10:41pm | #2

   Thanks for the advice- any recommendations on brand for this type of plane?
   Win

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 30, 2006 10:51pm | #3

   An 'antique' Stanley No. 3 would work fine (about $40 plus a little of your elbow grease to tune up).

   Alternatively, Lie Nielsen sells a premium plane that will work right out of the box.  Lee Valley sells them too, but I don't know if they have a No. 3.

   I'm partial to Lie Nielsen when I go looking for a new plane.

2. 
   bugbear | Oct 31, 2006 02:31pm | #14

   >> On extraordinarily well behaved stock you could
   >> use a scrub plane with a teentsie bit of blade
   >> showing but you don't have the advantage of a
   >> tight mouth and chip breaker to help prevent tearout.It's rather difficult to get a tight mouth on a strongly cambered iron, and the action of chip breakers is also disputed.I think the scrub would work pretty much as well (or badly) as the modified smoother. BugBear

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 31, 2006 05:27pm | #15

   One grinds the chipbreaker to fit the camber exactly.  You can put it as close to edge as you care to, or leave it back to take a greedy shaving.  Strictly user's choice.

   I assumed that the term 'tight mouth' would be understood, relatively speaking, as compared to a scrub plane.

   It's all moot, since I'd use a mallet powered gouge to produce the effect mentioned.

   Edited 10/31/2006 10:28 am ET by TaunTonMacoute

2. 
   Lataxe | Oct 30, 2006 10:52pm | #4

   Win,

   The finish you describe is more likely to have been achieved with an adz.  I have a number of pieces of oak furniture made by one Albert Jeffries, an apprentice of the mouseman.  The furniture was inherited from the father-in-law, who went to see the stuff being made in Thirsk, when he ordered it, in the 60s.

   Apparently all surfaces were finished with a long-handled adz swung between the legs.  In this way they shaped chair legs, table tops and just about every other component, from the initial "blanks". 

   Last year I attended a green woodworking course, in which this same technique was used to flatten boards cut out of a tree, when making stools or benches.  It is not easy to get a good finish (lots of chop-marks where the cut was  not completed by this clumsy novice) but I imagine after the first 50 pieces you improve!

   I suppose a similar effect could be obtained with a plane; but the force of the heavy, sharp adz head swung on the end of a 2 foot handle is probably what creates sufficient momentum to allow a good, clean scallop to be taken "in one".  Similar force from a plane hardly seems possible, so each scallop would presumably have to be created slowly, with many plane swooshed-per-scallop.....?

   Lataxe

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 30, 2006 11:16pm | #5

   Can also be accomplished with a carving gouge, although that would be rather time consuming.

   There's some bloke famous for his gouge surfaced entry doors.  Name escapes me at the moment.

   I've had decent luck with the plane.  Any curved cutting tool will work.  Scorp might even do it.

   The plane can be used in take off and landing mode, very distinct hit and off the wood motion or continuously which will give the appearance of a 'confused sea' for the nautically minded (if used on the diagonals).

   Lots of possibilities.

   Edited 10/30/2006 4:19 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute

1. 
   Winchester | Oct 30, 2006 11:22pm | #7

   My description of the surface may have been a little misleading. The effect is very subtle- I would guess the scallops are no deeper than .02", maybe an inch and a half long, 3/4" wide
   Win

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 30, 2006 11:31pm | #8

   Plane or a gouge.  I stand in awe of anybody who could swing an adze and consistently make that kind of light contact, but it's possible I guess.  A smaller adze, not a gutter adze, would be worth a try if you decide to go that route.

   A big gouge could easily do this work for you.  In fact, with the length of each scallop you mentioned, it might even be the tool of choice.

    

   Edited 10/30/2006 4:32 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute

2. 
   Lataxe | Oct 31, 2006 09:42pm | #16

   TTM,

   The attached photos show an adz being swung to "flatten" green wood slabs, for stool seats.  The adz blade is about 2ins across with a very slight curve.  This results in scallops that are about 2ins in diameter (although the circles they make are not perfectly round and tend to overlap, giving interesting shapes).  The scallops are very shallow but smooth - at least they are once the technique is improved and one swing makes a through cut.

   The adz needs to be razor sharp; hence the straw-mat leggings you see, to avoid the adzer taking off his own foot.

   The oak furniture I have from Albert Jeffries has exactly these size and type of scallops.  I would gues that the adzed surfaces have also been sanded, as the ridges betwen the scallop depressions are rounded not sharp, as the adz would leave them.

   The impressive thing is that the scalloping is very even over every surface of all the furniture.  Even the narrow parts, such as chair legs and the rails of panelled cabinets (as well as the panels themselves) show evenly made part-scallops.

   I need some raking light to get a decent photo of this furniture and its scalloping; I will have a try tomorrow.

   Lataxe

   NB The Knots attachments facility seems to be on the blink at the moment, so no photos attached.  I'll try again tomorrow.

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 31, 2006 09:51pm | #17

   I've used an adze, albeit a smaller one (like John Brown the Welsh chairmaker), which doesn't really have the mass to be swung as you've described it. 

   I have no doubt that somebody skilled with the larger unit could make skimming cuts and certainly if one has at minimum seen a picture of the tool then the marks resulting from its use aren't too difficult to imagine.

   Edited 10/31/2006 2:52 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute

2. 
   Winchester | Oct 30, 2006 11:19pm | #6

   Could be. This part is deliberately distressed so there is actually quite a bit of tear out. The piece has a beautiful finish- possible a french polish, so even though the surface is crude, i.e. not smooth and flat, the overall effect is very refined. The tear out and scallops along with some skilfull glazing etc. really make this piece sing. The maker claims to use "antique cherry" and this may be so, but I have to believe he is creating new surfaces when he builds the piece from old boards.
   Win

1. 
   grainwise | Oct 31, 2006 03:35am | #12

   Do you have a picture of the piece that you're talking about that you could show us?

1. 
   Winchester | Oct 31, 2006 10:09pm | #18

   I will try and take some digital photo's - not sure how well this surface will show up. I have heard a lot of good advice, but like most things- you have to experiment on your own and see what works for you.
   I am going to start by putting a camber on a smoothing plane and see if that works.
   On a more general note, a well "antiqued" piece that evokes age and use has so much more appeal to me than brand new perfection. The techniques used to create this look are probably not as easy as I think, but then again, I will probably be able to pass off some of my goofs as part of the deliberate distressing, so there is a bonus there.
   I hope to complete this piece within a month ( the garage/workshop is getting colder ever week) and I will post some photos of the finished product.
   Thanks to all.
   Win

3. 
   ChrisB | Oct 31, 2006 12:20am | #9

   You can also get a hand held power plane and have the local sharpening shop grind a curvature into the blade. A number of high end craftsmen in our neck of the woods use these things on exposed beams to get a very nice hand hewn effect. Learning curve is very steep and easy.

   Chris   

4. 
   Troy | Oct 31, 2006 02:28am | #10

   Your on the right track with a hand plane with a slightly curved blade or just for fun Festol makes a cutter for their powerplane that gives a dished surface.

   Troy

5. 
   AdamCherubini | Oct 31, 2006 03:17am | #11

   That scallop is more than likely the result of a sharp jack plane, not a smoother, definitely not an adz. Every piece of wood i plane looks like that at one point or another. Sometimes I remove the scallops, sometimes I ignore them, but i almost never leave a perfectly flat surface.

   I like to think that you can only remove a certain volume of wood. So if you want to take a thick shaving, you must take a narrow shaving. Consequently, I see rougher planes having greater camber, finishing planes less. This is done to ease the effort, not for esthetic reasons, but i agree with you and your wife- I like the rougher surfaces for esthetic reasons. Too much of my world has that semi gloss plastic coated finish.

   Adzes are typically used at some angle to the long grain. Many times they are used fully perpendicular to the grain. I have worked timber with my adz that looked like it was planed with a smoother when I was done. It is not difficult to do, but it scares the dickons out of me. I don't recommend it. Its the only hand tool thing I've ever done that's frightened me.

   Adam

1. 
   Patto | Oct 31, 2006 04:18am | #13

   Adam,

   A couple of the top surfaces on some old Lodge furniture I use had that look. These are imported English pieces made from Mahogany and could do with some serious restoration.

   Anyway, some clown decided that these looked ratty and replaced one of the tops with a granite bench top. Clearly mine wasnt the only negative opinion - the project seems to have stopped.

   dave