Replies

1. 
   Kell | Jan 23, 2004 05:27pm | #1

   Buzzsaw,

   Let's start with the cross cut sled.  You'll want it to ride right on top of the saw table, not 3/8" above it.  Safer and more stable that way.  Cut the runners from wider stock than the little squares you have as it's safer to do so and use a hand plane to fit them into the saw miter slots.  BTW I prefer maple for these runners, extremely hard and stable.  Any plane will work for this but you may find the block plane to be easier to use on this size stock.  One tip, take the board you're going to cut the runners from and stand it up in the miter slot.  If it's too big, plane it down before you rip the strips off and you'll find it much easier to do as the larger board won't flex when held in a vise.  If you do it this way, a jack plane works well.

   The size of your cross cut sled is up to you.  A good starting size is one that the same as your table saw top.  One that hangs over one end but not the other may be unbalanced and give you problems when cutting.  You don't want a cross cut sled trying to escape when cutting with it!  You may find that you need more than one sled depending on the projects you create.  If you work with large stock, full size furniture for example, a large sled is much easier to handle big pieces.  If most of your pieces built are small then a smaller sled is called for.

   I hope you understand there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to woodworking.  It's not like plumbing where the 3 rules are: hot's on the left, cold's on the right and water won't run uphill!  There are many ways to do anything in the shop, some faster than others, some more accurate than others and some safer than others.  Choose the one that makes sense for you, your tools and your skill level.

   Benches are personal and should be made that way, as a personally tailored suit.  If you want to see some great examples, get a copy of the Workbench Book.  It will give you ideas from inexpensive to incredibly deluxe, again based on your personal needs.  Good luck and keep asking questions!  It's the only way to learn.

   Kell

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 23, 2004 05:50pm | #2

   Thanks Kell,

     Good suggestions.  I will look for maple for the runners.  I actually did think of standing it up in the miter slots before ripping them.  So, as far as the actual sled is concerned, you think I should just use the dimensions of the table saw top and make it to that size? If I did this the saw kerf would not be exactly in the middle of the sled but more to the right. Do you think I can extend past the right side at all?

     Also, the Workbench Book sounds good.  How elaborate is your workbench?  Does yours have bench dogs?  My neighbor, a long-time woodworker, built a really nice bench with bench dogs years ago and he said he almost never uses them.  You see, I think I would use them just for planing wood if not anything else.  Also, what type of wood did you use for your bench top?

     Thanks for all of your help...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   Kell | Jan 23, 2004 09:02pm | #3

   Buzzsaw,

   I think you can extend past the right side a few inches and not worry about it, in fact that might be a good idea if the waste side of your cut will mostly be to the right of the blade, then your stock will be mostly left.  Some extra on the right may help to counterbalance the load.  Remember, you're trying to make a sled that carries your stock past the blade smoothly and safely so as long as it's fairly balanced you should be fine.  If the saw kerf is not in the middle, I don't think that's a big deal unless it's bothersome to your eye. 

   I think the use of benchdogs is directly proportional to the amount of hand tool / hand work ones does.  If he rarely uses a card scraper or a plane or a hand saw, he rarely uses bench dogs.  He probably saw that everyone else has them and built it to look like everyone elses.  I use mine.

   My bench is not what I would call elaborate.  It's made from rock maple with a tail vise on the right and shoulder vise on the left front.  I have a row of bench dogs down the length of it nearest to me with three in the moving part of the tail vise.  Total length is about six feet and the depth is about 28 inches including the tool well.  (If I were making a new bench, I'd leave out the tool well.  It's a catch all for crap in my case but I'm not anal about clean up, either.  You also lose that space when assembling but I have a separate assembly table.  Consider this if your limited in space.)  Top is about 2 1/2 inches think.  I built it about 13 years ago and I'm finally adding some storage under it in the form of cabinets instead of a shelf.  The top is made up of 8/4 maple that I sawed and glued up on edge so that side grain is up.  I believe it makes it more stable.

   HoOpe this helps.

   Kell

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 23, 2004 10:16pm | #5

   Thanks Kell,

     You guys are the best.  If you have a digital camera I would love to see your bench and possibly the crosscut sled that you built.  If not, it's no big deal.  When you made your bench did you use any particular plans?  I've found that what I like to do is read about all different ways people build things and incorporate what I like in my own stuff.  I don't think I could use a set of plans to build anything.  So unoriginal.  Thanks again for your advice... Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   Kell | Jan 23, 2004 11:42pm | #10

   I don't have a digital camera yet but one is in the budget for the spring so no pics for a few months, at least. 

   I recall using a set of plans as a starting point.  They were from Lee Valley Tools and were especially helpful in creating my tail vise.  I think they were free when I purchased something else, a waterstone pond maybe?  In any case, the Workbench Book is a great resource.  If you have a Woodcraft store nearby, their book section will be helpful as well.  You'll find many references for workbenches.

   Good luck.

   Kell

2. 
   Dan019 | Jan 23, 2004 09:02pm | #4

   Buzz

   Kell is right on his advice. Also, for what it's worth, in the thread before yours they are discussing their large superduper sleds. I built one of these (featured in American Woodworker, I think) with all the bells and whistles. Then I saw Norm using a (approx.) 18x30 board with a runner on the bottom and a 1" hardwood fence/stop on the top. His was all beat up but it looked really simple to make so I made one. Long story short, the superduper one hangs on the wall collecting dust while the cheap POS gets used almost daily.

   Also, Iin FWW a few years back they did a feature article on a ww from the Phil. area. He's one of the well known guys in the feild but my memory fails me now. Anyway they showcased his workbench and it sounds like it might be something you're looking for. It's very heavy duty with benchdogs and all. If intereseted I'll go thru my stack of mags and find it for you. I built one and it's one of the most indespensible tools in my shop.

   Dan019

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 23, 2004 10:23pm | #6

   Dan,

     I would love to see that article that you are talking about on the workbench.  Every time I look at the piece of crap that is my bench (it was left with the house when I bought it) it makes me a little angry.  But I know all in good time I will have everything just as I want it. Interesting about the super sled hanging on the wall.  I took out this video from our local library and it features 4 master craftsmen; Jon Eakes, Mike Dunbar, Franz Klaus, and Truini.  Eakes featured a crosscut sled and a tenon and mortise jig and it really got me thinking that it would make sense to make a crosscut sled.  The other jig looks awesome as well. 

     Just wondering, does your saw have a guard and do you use it?  I inherited my Dad's old Craftsman and they didn't make guards back then.  So I haven't added one.  My neighbor, a longtime woodworker, has the same saw, but newer, and took his guard off first thing.   Just wondering what other woodworkers do.  Thanks...

   Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   JJV | Jan 23, 2004 10:53pm | #7

   Hey Buzz,

   I think you'll find that a lot of folks here don't remember what their guards look like.  That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do but it dependson  what everyone is comfortable with.  I don't use mine because I don't think the're very well designed, and the nice overarm ones cost too much for me to add right now.  I just make sure that the featherboards are tight and I listen to my inner voice.  If something doesn't feel right, I don't even turn the saw on and try to figure out another way. 

   As far as benches are concerned, I built one that I think is a nice compromise between a piece of junk and a really sweet all-maple number.  I laminated 3 2x5x3/4 pieces of MDF together (flat, fairly stable, heavy as hell) and I put 1 1/2" wide by 1/2" thick strips of maple on the top (I used construction adhesive to account for movement).  For the base I used douglas-fir 4x4s.  It didn't cost a lot and it was pretty easy to make.  It's served me well for 5 years, though admittedly I am just a hobbyist.  I use it primarily for hand-tool work, but I don't have any bench dogs-I have a stop on one end of the bench that I use to keep stock from moving.  I have one vise-it's a Record quick-action knockoff that I'm happy with.  The downside is I have to look at all that MDF-I just haven't gotten around to wrapping the sides up in maple. 

   Anyway, if I have any advice to offer, I'd say to not go crazy at first building a Mercedes bench if you're not sure of your work style.  Even if you are, your style can change and this beauty of a bench you slaved over is now unsuitable for what you do.  I spent some time working in a custom production shop and my lead guy was just a brilliant craftsman.  His bench?  A piece of plywood screwed to some old cabinets.  He showed me that it's not really the tools, but the person using the tools, that makes the difference.

   Of course, I haven't completely adopted that mindset...

2. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 23, 2004 11:04pm | #8

   Thanks for your info Johnniev.  I'm not going to go nuts with my bench but I've got to replace the POC that I currently have.  Good point about the 'person using the tools that makes the difference'. Regards,

   Buzzsaw

3. 
   Dan019 | Jan 27, 2004 11:44pm | #11

   I just got back in today that's why I didn't get back to you, sorry.

   I'll find that article tonite. Also, no I don't use the fence all that much. As a matter of fact, I only use it after reading about close encounters from others here at Knots, but then I usually go back to working w/o it. Like one of the other posts noted they're not very well designed. As soon you need to rip something more narrow than say 1.5" it gets in the way of the push stick, so off it comes. I use a foam push block (cement float, actually) to put pressure against the fence and a push stick to push the stock thru, keeping my fingers well out of the way. Also, as mentioned, if that little voice inside your head says this isn't a good idea, listen to it!

   I'll take some dig.s of the bench and post tomorrow, weather permitting.

   Dan019

4. 
   Dan019 | Jan 28, 2004 09:07pm | #19

   My bad, it wasn't FWW it was American Woodworker April 98 issue 65. The man's name was Robert Whitley. I'll post my interpertation of his design. FWW had a similar one in April 03 #162. I'll also post pic.s of my cutoff sled and the super duper one hanging on the wall and a pic of my push block & push stick.

   Hope this helps,

   Dan019

   
5. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 28, 2004 09:41pm | #20

   Thanks for all of those pictures Dan.  Good stuff...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

2. 
   jhausch | Jan 28, 2004 02:17pm | #12

   Quote - I hope you understand there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to woodworking.  It's not like plumbing where the 3 rules are: hot's on the left, cold's on the right and water won't run uphill!

   I thought the plumber's rules were:  $hit runs downhill and don't chew your fingernails. . .

1. 
   Kell | Jan 28, 2004 05:23pm | #15

   I was attempting to keep to the PG version.  You'rs is the version I heard although I've not heard the one about chewing fingernails.

   The last two rules are Friday's payday and the boss is an a-hole.

   Kell

2. 
   dirtstirrer | Jan 23, 2004 11:38pm | #9

   Hey Buzz,

   While we're on benches, figured I'd add my $.02.  The "Workbench Book" is great.  Good overall ideas for what works.  Keep in mind though, that if it works for you, it's right.  My bench is not "normal", but I love it.  4 ft. by 7 1/2 ft. of 5 1/2" thick pine.  I was practically given 18 ft. of laminated beam, so I used it.  Weighs about 800lbs. 

   I think you'll like how Landis tells how the clamping systems on various benches work.  You have plenty of options.  Heck, at least one bench in the book doesn't even have a vise, and it looks very effecient in use.  Have fun with it, probably the most fun thing there is to build.

   Steve
3. 
   3fingers | Jan 28, 2004 03:29pm | #13

   I have a question for you. Have you practiced on making an projects. Not for the shop, but for friends and family?

   When it comes to jigs in the shop you make them as you need them. Thats part of the fun, as you seem to be having. Your shop will get to a point you have every tool you need but the problem is you are not as good as they are. So practice making things as your skills improve you will see the need to make more jigs and other things for the shop. Practice, practice, practice. Keep having fun.

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 28, 2004 04:17pm | #14

   I have made some projects for the house.  I saw the crosscut sled jib on a video and it looked like something that would make sense to have.  I have an old craftsman with no guard or splitter.  It just appeared that for crosscutting that this jig would make the practice safer.  I have it pretty much complete at this point and I think I'm going to like it, and , more importantly, use it... Thanks...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

4. 
   beck4000 | Jan 28, 2004 05:34pm | #16

   Go here:

   http://www.grampasworkshop.net/cutoffjg.html

   If nothing sticks to Teflon,how does Teflon Stick to metal. Huh

5. 
   patternmaker | Jan 28, 2004 06:02pm | #17

   When you get ready to build that bench,you may want to purchase a piece of perfect plank maple from Freeman Supply co. It comes in thickness from 3/4 to 6" in thickness X 18"X 96".

   It is a slab built up from short pieces of end joined full width clear stock.It is flat and is designed for stability.This material is also available in mahagony,white pine ,and several other species.

   Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/28/2004 10:06:35 AM ET by Pat

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 28, 2004 06:17pm | #18

   Pat,

     That is a good idea.  I went to their website and looked under sheet materials and didn't see the 'perfect plank maple' that you mentioned.  I'll have to look closer.  Thanks..

   Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   patternmaker | Jan 28, 2004 11:11pm | #21

   I`m sorry,but I had an error in my last posting.

   When I checked my catalog,I found that Freeman no longer has maple in the form of "perfect plank".

   It is offered in mahagony.white pine and jelutong.

   I don`t believe that either of these species would make a suitable bench top.

   Sorry for the misinformation.

   For many years, my bench was a solid wooden door topped by a piece of 3/4" hardwood plywood.

   Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 29, 2004 12:13am | #22

   Thanks Pat,

     I have noticed that  a lot of bench tops are made by affixing boards end on end instead of joining boards lengthwise. In otherwords, if they were 2X4s the 2" side would be the top of the table. The first type would make the creation of holes for bench dogs much easier.  Any opinions or comments?

   Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   patternmaker | Jan 29, 2004 07:23am | #23

   I`m not sure that I know what you mean.

   Work safely¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

2. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 29, 2004 03:20pm | #24

   Sorry Pat,

     What I mean is lately I have seen where some bench tops are made by joining boards together (like 2X4s) by stacking them alongside each other, and as a result the thinner side is the top of the bench.  Most of the man-made benchtops I have seen are planks (say 12") that are joined, as you would any table top. Maybe I'm still not clear.  If not, I understand. Thanks Pat...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

3. 
   Kell | Jan 29, 2004 04:00pm | #25

   Buzzsaw,

   I can answer this one.  By putting the faces together, you're able to mill the holes for bench dogs prior to gluing them up with dado blades or router.  Additionally, the wood is most likely to move across it's width.  This means the table top gets taller or shorter rather than wider and narrower which could break a joint in its construction.

   Kell

4. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 29, 2004 06:11pm | #26

   Kell,

     Do you think a benchtop made of pine 2X4s in this manner is adequate?  I like the idea of milling up the holes for the bench dogs prior to gluing.  Would gluing be the suggested method to connect the boards?  Regards,

   Buzzsaw

5. 
   Kell | Jan 29, 2004 06:41pm | #27

   Buzzsaw,

   Pine is too soft in my opinion particularly if you're going to use bench dogs.  Pine won't stand up to any pressure put on it when you clamp something in a dog.  I have to recommend maple although others have used additional hard woods.

   Gluing is the preferred method of joining the boards for the top.

   Kell

6. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 29, 2004 07:58pm | #28

   I have only seen maple in 1" widths but I pretty much have been relegated to Home Depot/Lowes.  What dimension of maple would you suggest?  SOunds pretty pricey as the 1X6 pieces I have seen at HD are around $2.70 a board foot...

   Is your bench top made in such a fashion and what are the dimensions (lXw) of your bench top? Thanks...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

7. 
   Kell | Jan 29, 2004 09:36pm | #29

   I recommend 8/4 maple for the top, laid up on edge.  This would give you 1 3/4" strips and the thickness or the top, so the rip of the maple, should be about 2 to 2 1/2 inches.

   My bench is about 24 x 72 I believe and there's a tool tray behind that which I would do without if building again.

   Kell

8. 
   Buzzsaw | Jan 29, 2004 10:02pm | #30

   Kell,

     I feel like such a novice asking this question but when you say

    

   I recommend 8/4 maple for the top, laid up on edge.  This would give you 1 3/4" strips and the thickness or the top, so the rip of the maple, should be about 2 to 2 1/2 inches.

   Does 8/4 maple means an 8' long 2X4 of maple? I feel like such an amateur to even ask this question. Is your benchtop created in this manner or do you use joined boards?  Thanks..

   Regards,

   Buzzsaw

9. 
   jackiechan | Jan 30, 2004 04:58am | #31

   Buzz'

   4/4 = 1" thick

   6/4 = 1.5" thick

   8/4 = 2" thick   .................etc...

   Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

10. 
    Buzzsaw | Jan 30, 2004 04:07pm | #32

    Thanks so much... I guess you just gotta divide the 2.Regards,

    Buzzsaw

11. 
    Kell | Jan 30, 2004 06:36pm | #33

    Buzzsaw,

    Hardwood is typically purchased in thicknesses expressed in quarters of an inch.   8/4 lumber is ~2 inches thick in the rough and when dressed or jointed and planed the thickness is between 1.5 and 1.75 inches thick.  The lumber you buy at HD / Lowes is 4/4 that has been dressed to 3/4 of an inch.  You can typically buy lumber in the rough, right off the sawmill, in 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 8/4, 12/4 and 16/4 although the last two are special order in this area, Richmond VA.

    My bench is made of brown maple, also known as soft maple, and the top is constructed of 8/4 lumber that was dressed to 1.75 inches thick.  I then cut strips 2.5 inches wide, stood them on edge and glued them together.

    Hope this helps and make no apologies about your questions.  As long as you don't ask the same one twice, you're learning!

    Kell