I went to the Woodworkers show in Baltimore over the weekend and came home with a Lie-Neilson #66 Beading Plane and a Lee Valley medium shoulder plane. The $400.00 dropped still hurts however. Is there where the collection obsession begins? By the way, I looked at both the LV and LN shouldler planes and had the chance to try them out. The LV is just much more comfortable in the hand than the LN. ANy opinions?
Dan C.
Dan Carroll
Replies
I have neither, but I can say you bought the best one because it's the one that feels best in your hand.
A lot of folks ask "what is the best this or that" but personally I feel that when you get to the higher levels of quality in hand tools, the one that feels best to you is really the best. This is rather simplistic but I think everyone gets my point.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
"Is there where the collection obsession begins?"
If it hurts and you keep going back for more, yes.
"It hurts so nice!"
I have just got the LV Medium Shoulder Plane. Read lots of reviews and messages here. Seems like the improvements in the design made by LV are what people appreciated. The set screws and the handle seem to make a diff over the LN. A machinist in a forum in here said that both were machined very well and well within tolerances. So after that, I bought. I found the LV slightly heavier, wider, had those cool setscrews, and that nice handle. This is my first LV. I have the LN Low Angle Jack Plane and the rabbeting block plane. I love both, they are beautiful and work very well. The LV just doesn't look as good as the LN Medium Shoulder Plan but I am comfortable it will work for me.
Dan.C, you could not go wrong with either. Their machining is beyond comparison by most of us but I too felt that the large LV "came to hand" like they had used ME to size that tool. All the best, Paddy
GDI, pull yourself together man, How can it hurt to spend a small sum of money like that and get two high quality tools that will outlast you???
And by "a small sum" I mean ask youself how long you have to work to earn $400.
I believe I feel the urge coming on to contact messrs L.Valley and L. Nielsen and tell them to double their prices.
I have only told my wife about the Lie-Neilson. Keep in mind she is a red headed lawyer and to borrow a phrase from an old movie --"... that red hair is no lie.." I will survive but I suspect my production around the house will have to increase in a way she appricates. But they are so nice to hold ....Dan Carroll
No, the "collection obsession" begins when you start paying $100 for a small little maple basket. (women are laughing, men are just confused).
Dan,
Congratulations on your new toys. You'll enjoy using them.
I like the LN shoulder planes; they fit my hands well and are, to me, very comfortable to use.
<<Is there where the collection obsession begins?>>
You're looking at this in entirely the wrong way: "Obsession" suggests some sort of abnormality. Based on your posts, you seem like a completely normal guy to me. Liking old/new tools is entirely normal...a real guy thing...like football.... Try to think of it, instead, as an "enthusiasm for high-quality instruments of creativity." There, don't you feel better already? I thought so....
BTW, like the potato chips, there's no such thing as just one Lie-Nielsen tool....there will be more.... Prepare thy wallet for its inevitable fate..... ;-)
Beste Wünschen auf ein glückliches und wohlbehaltenes Neues Jahr!
Tschüß!
Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!
James
No Opinion on the LV verses the LN. The LN is based on old traditional designs and the LV took a fresh approach in ergonomics. I'm used to the old Preston and Record designs and so prefer the LN, but there's no bad choice here.
Nice to meet you Cousin, BTW
David Carroll
ANd which boat do you come over on? You woulnd not be one the Brooklyn Carrolss now would lad.Dan Carroll
Dan, If they were Irish Newfies(Argentia, Newfoundland) and lived around Prospect Park in South Brooklyn. Raymond and Phil( my godmother), then Ray jr. and Betty Ann. Then they are from my gang? Paddy
No, wrong group --- Michael came over from County Longfrod direct, married Ann Kelly from Staten Island.Dan Carroll
Dan:
It can get worse, and you must keep your wits about you. I myself not only buy tools, but also hunting and fishing gear and antique military horse tack. Nevertheless, I have been married for almost 27 years to the same woman.
How, you ask? Guile, my boy guile. I could see that you have promise, though, when you said that you had only mentioned one of your new planes. Make sure the other stays out of sight for a respectable period, and when it finally comes to light, be vague and say you are not sure exactly, but you have had it "a while," and just dug it out.
BE warned, the worst mistake I made in this respect was to shift to a home office, which deprived me of a secure delivery address.
Edited 1/14/2007 11:39 pm ET by Joe Sullivan
MIne was allowing my wife to join me in practice -- I lost my office accout she did not look at, now she balances the books and I can not hid one bloody farthing spent from her.Dan Carroll
Cash. Small unmarked bills. Padded expense accounts.
OR, buy her tools for her birthday!!!
Here is a lttle tip for you guys, I have used it before and it seems to work well (I can't say I'm proud of what I've done, but i get my tools).
I just built a large office in my basement for my wife. She Tele-commutes for work and stays home with out one year old. The basement floor was too cold for my 1y/o to crawl around on, so I needed a compressor and nail gun to lay down sleepers for the insluated base floor, I had to cut a bunch of 2x4s so i had to get my radial arm saw and table saw(lol). When I was finishing up the built in shef, she said, "it was kind of plain" So off i went and bought me a new plunge router, and you cant have a router with out a full set of bits for her to choose a profile she likes. ETC...ETC...
I like to keep her involved (or let her think she is). Every now and then pump out a LIL' something for her shelf in her office and she is happy. Wait till she sees the new railing I'm putting in for her to get to her office.....Trying to figure out which lathe seems to be the biggest problem.
OH, I LIKE it! That is guile bordering on evil. Are you named Chuck, and did you ever live in Terre Haute?
I had a friend in high school name Chuck who was very good at building and repairing radios and other tube-driven paleolithic electronics. He was a HAM radio operator, among other things. His old man didn't think this was a worthwhile use of funds and therefore kept him on a short leash (no job, either -- interfere with studies, don't you know). So, my friend would periodically go down a d loosen up some tube or other on the old man's TV, causing it to fritz out. His father would then ask Chuck to repair it. Chuck would produce a parts list, and be asked -- no -- ORDERED to get it pronto and fix the set before the ballgame.
The TV was always working fr the ballgames, and Chuck's radios got better and better.
I don't believe so. My Grandfather John Carroll came through NY ca. 1910. His family moved to Marlden Mass. I don't know too much about them.
I went to Ireland last year, seems Carrolls are like Smiths, lots of them!
David C.
It is a very common name in Ireland -- somthing like 4th or 5th most common surname in Ireland. There are two stories about why my Great-Great Grandfather left Ireland. One told in the from parlor over teacups was that he was a recent wideror and dicided to make a new life in America. The other was told in the kitchen over potreen, it admited he was a recent widower, but there was a donnybrook at the fair in Longford and the member of the IRC was struck with the business end of a spade. The injury to the IRC nember depends on the amount of whisky consumed by the story teller.
Dan Carroll
LV/Veritas has been making a lot of nice improvements to handtools, the medium shoulder plane is a perfect example. One of the problems I have with the traditional design is the gripping postions. The LN and the Clifton give you only one or two gripping positions, none very comfortable, and they don't include pulling towards you. By just adding a bevel edged hole in front of the iron you get another grip. The back of the handle, with the swivel knob makes it much more comfortable in push mode and lends itself nicely to pull mode. Resetting the iron after sharpening is always a minor PITA so it's easy to keep using it after the edge starts dulling - a recipe for a problem. But with the LV/Veritas I sharpen or at least touch up the edge at the first hint of dullness.
Now that you're on the slippery slope, consider wood planes - Steve Knight makes some nice ones and has started making infill planes. Google Knight Toolworks to find his site.
Even if you buy a LN or Veritas plane, adding a Hock Iron with matching chip breaker can make them work even better. If you get into wooden planes with wedges you'll soon discover their advantage over metal planes. With metal planes there's almost always a little slop in the depth of cut adjuster. Going from thick to thin shavings and back can be a minor exercise in frustration - overshooting being quite common. With a Tap To Adjust wooden plane you can go back and forth with a hammer tap at the right place.
You're just approaching the top of a very slippery slope. Enjoy the ride.
charlie b
From another forum.... Life is too short for ugly boats,,,,,,, or ugly tools. I went to the same show and went a little nuts myself. Good tools are worth it.
I like both of those guys products. I see LNs on Ebay on occasion, which is where I got mine, but I have never seen a LV.
Both guys, if you give them a call or an Email, will treat you like you are the center of the world, and solve your problem
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