Replies

1. 
   Tom7 | Sep 11, 2005 05:20am | #1

   Go to http://www.homesteadfinishing.com and search the forum.  You will find a wealth of information.  You can also post your questions there and numerous finishing experts will help you.  I recommend a dye stain (Transtint from Homestead Finishing) in water applied with a simple spray bottle.  I personally don't like dyes in alcohol because of lap marks and weird color results.  Wipe lightly and you won't get any lap marks.  Seal with a wash coat of shellac after the dye is dry.  Then apply whatever finish you prefer.  I really like the water base finishes that Homestead Finishing sells.  Whatever you decide to do,  Jeff Jewitt (Homestead Finishing owner) and all the other folks on their forum will give you great advice.

1. 
   twelvegates | Sep 11, 2005 06:51am | #2

   I have now posted on that site as well. Thanks for your advice.

2. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 11, 2005 05:43pm | #3

   Sanding to 220 is too fine. With oak, you can get away with sanding as coarse as 100 grit whenever you're using a stain and film forming finish. I usually sand to 150 grit.

   Here's a thread I pulled from my the forum on my website (original thread)-

   Getting a dark, even color on oak takes two coloring steps; dye first, then stain. Use a dye color that adds to the stain color you're using to give you the final color you want. You will likely need to dilute the dye since they're usually concentrated and too dark to use straight from the container. Dyes that can be thinned with water, alcohol, or lacquer thinner (acetone) are most versatile and usually less likely to fade. I like to use alcohol or lacquer thinner/acetone to thin the dye so it won't raise the grain of the wood too much.

   The key to avoid lap marks when you use dye is to apply it very wet and move very quickly. It looks messy while you're doing it, but the results are great. To apply the dye, mix up a good size batch and use a cotton cloth or a few heavy duty paper towels (e.g., Scott Shop Towels). Put the dye in a container with a wide opening (one of those 2 quart plastic buckets from the paint store/home center works well) and wet the cloth completely. Use the wet cloth to spread the dye over an entire section of the entertainment center (e.g., one opening)as quickly as you can without splashing/dripping the dye onto or into adjacent openings. If the dye drips or runs at any spot, quickly wet the entire area to avoid those spots staying darker than the surrounding area. Wear gloves to avoid dying your hands. Once the entire surface is quickly wetted, squeeze the excess dye from your cloth and wipe up any wet spots. Move right on to the next section and use the same technique. Once the entire entertainment center has been dyed, let it dry completely (overnight is good).

   Once the dye is dry, use your stain directly over it. I typically apply the stain pretty much the same way as the dye; especially with Minwax or other stains that contain both pigments and dyes.

   Here's a color sample on oak that shows how the dye and stain combine to make a darker color;

   View Image

   The left section of the wood shows where it was just dyed. The far right shows where it was just stained. The darker middle section is where the dye and stain overlap.

   Do samples to figure out how much, if any, you want to dilute the dye before you stain over it.

   Paul
   http://www.finishwiz.com

1. 
   twelvegates | Sep 11, 2005 11:23pm | #4

   Thank you very much for the clear instructions. I have much to learn.

1. 
   Paul_Snyder | Sep 12, 2005 01:06am | #5

   Who doesn't? ;)Good luck.Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com

3. 
   Kevin | Sep 12, 2005 01:27am | #6

   I concur with Paul on the duo of dye and wipe stain to get it darker. He's right about what grit of sandpaper to use, too. In the furniture factories I worked in during the 80's #180 was the grit of choice for final sanding all Oak at one place and #120 was the grit of choice at another. And because Oak is so hard you want to remember to change sandpaper regularly. Worn out sandpaper will polish the wood rather than abrade it. And polished wood doesn't take stain worth a damn.

   One thing that I do at work is to add dye concentrate to my wipe stain. This obviously won't work with just any dye or just any stain. I use M.L. Campbell solvent-based wipe stains and Sherwin Williams universal dye concentrates. After consulting with both my SW rep and my MLC rep, I found that adding 10% by volume of Glycol Ether PM (the solvent that SW uses to base their universal dyes) to the wiping stain allows me to add as much or as little dye to the wipe stain as I wish. The purpose of adding the Glycol Ether is to keep the dye in suspension so that it doesn't settle out.

   The above approach allows me to create wipe stains that will stain Oak really dark with just the one application. Of course it takes quite a bit of experimentation on scrap taking copious notes so that I can reliably reproduce that same color from just a formula.

1. 
   twelvegates | Sep 12, 2005 02:34am | #7

   Thanks for your tip. Maybe I should skip the idea of enrolling in a finishing school somewhere and just study all of these messages!

1. 
   Kevin | Sep 12, 2005 03:58am | #8

   I know that it must seem overwhelming sometimes. But, there's no substitute for experience. Just getting in there and trying some of the things you've read about can be a huge confidence booster when you see that it really works the way you were told it would. Plus, once you've got some personal experience with not just having a particular approach work, but more importantly, understanding WHY it worked... man, that's worth a good week in any finishing school as far as I'm concerned.

   My tip of the week would be to encourage anyone playing around with finishing to make an extra effort to understand WHY stuff works the way it does. Once you start building a knowledge base of why things work the way they do, you are significantly more able to think your way thru something that you've never attempted before.