Last night, finished the pore-filling step on my oak piece — it’s sort-of like a large shadow box (25″ wide x 33″ high x 2.5″ deep, boards are 5/8″ thick, will have molding attached to the front, with glass). Used Daly’s transparent paste wood filler.
I was feeling a little rushed in the pore-filling process. Seemed like it was flashing faster than I anticipated. I think I rubbed it all off the surface, but am wondering if I should wipe it down with turp or mineral spirits. I don’t want any residue interfering with the Watco when I put it on. Any thoughts?? I don’t actually see a film, but don’t trust my eyes! If there were a thin film there, would wiping it even do any good?
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 10/21/2002 11:08:49 PM ET by forest_girl
Replies
Jamie,
A great way to apply filler to oak is to use Watco as the solvent. Thin the filler to the right working consistency with Watco and apply as usual. The final steps in filler application or Watco alone are the same - wipe the piece as free of surface liquid as possibe. And that's what you do with the Watco/filler mixture. You get both processes started at the same time. And the filler seems to give the Watco'd oak an extra luminence.
The surface of your oak is ok. Yes, you can wipe it down with coarse rags and some mineral spirits. Scrub it well.
R
I would lightly sand the surface with a fine grit paper (220 or even 320) and a flat backing block (or you could use a 3M "fine" grit sanding sponge.) If you use very light pressure and sand carefully you will remove any residue from the surface of the wood. This will also help flatten the surface so the pores are filled evenly and flush with the unfilled parts of the oak.
I'll vote with Andy on this one. I used even finer sandpaper, either 400 or 600, and the work pieces were small enough that I could sand them by holding the sandpaper flat on a piece of MDF and rubbing the wood over it. I found that touch worked better than sight for telling me when the surface was back to wood.
Thanks everyone. I'll definitely do a little sanding. Next time, I'll try Rich's method and see how that looks.
Actually, if I make a bunch of these jersey cases, I think I'm going to have to change my approach. The whole pore-filling process adds so much time to the project! Since it's not a big flat surface, such as a table or dresser, I'm wondering if pore-filling isn't overkill. I'm doing it mainly because I don't like the look that oak gets when the stain settles in the pores and makes such a stark contrast. Was thinking maybe I should use natural Watco for the first coat, maybe that would work.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Have you consdered a dye instead of a pigment stain? I don't think it would darken the pores as much. Or you could fume the oak. The parts you're using are small enough that they wouldn't require a really elaborate setup. Or you could start with a darker wood, walnut, cherry, mesquite, etc.
I really want to stick with good ol' Watco. The plan is to be able to crank these jersey cases out pretty efficiently, and since I don't know yet how many I'll be making, ordering the right amount of dye would be problematic. Keeping this one pretty simple.
Oak wasn't my first choice for this project, but the people I'm making the "prototype" for wanted oak, so oak it is. Actually would prefer to be using Alder and finishing in light, medium, dark depending on people's choices.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'm in the sanding club, Jamie. Very, very lightly. The one time I worked with Daly's filler I found that it tends to clog the abrasive pretty fast if I used too much pressure.
[email protected]
Forest Girl,
I know I am going off on a tangent here, but I can't figure out how to e-mail this to you directly, sorry everybody else. I have been looking everywhere for a suggestion on a clear pore filler, one that will not impart any color to the pores of a couple of boxes I'm working on. Little success. Then I saw that you mentioned Daly's transparent pore filler. Is it just that? Transparent? I've heard that there are clear versions out there, but my local Woodcraft hasn't been much help. Their suggestion was to use one of the "Neutral" or "Natural" fillers they stock (which are actually grey), but I'm still looking around. Any comment would be appreciated and I'm sorry for butting in on your post. Thanks much...
Erich
Oh, Erich, you've go a looonnnnng way to go to catch up with me on "tangents" LOL!! But, to your point, I don't feel I have enough experience with pore fillers in general, or Daly's in particular, to answer your question reliably. Hopefully, Mike or someone with more experience can answer. I'd suggest you check at http://www.homesteadfinishing.com (Jeff Jewitt's web site) and post your question there also. The answer you get there should be quite accurate.
The stain sample pieces I prepared with the Daly's looked great, but I'm a little nervous about the pieces I just filled, and judgment has to wait until I stain them. I've liked the Daly's so far, but there may be a better product out there.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hey there F_G,
Gosh, talk about quick response! Thanks tons for the info., I've been over at that site but I didn't realize they had a forum for questions. I'll give it a whirl. Thanks again and good luck. Erich
Here's a link to a transparent grain filler - http://www.compliantspraysystems.com/transparent_wood_grain_filler/transparent_grain_filler.htm
Paul
F'burg, VA
Paul,
Thanks for the link, I might just get me some of that thar stuff and try it for fun. Keep your head down in Fredricksburg, I'm up in Alexandria and we are too. Hopefully they caught those guys today! Thanks again!
Erich
The local paper is reporting the police "are positive" they have the sniper(s). Hopefully life will return to normal here.
I was going to edit my earlier post and add that tagetcoatings.com also has a transparent pore filler - it can be sprayed on if you're spraying finishes. Its labeled HSF5100 or something similar.Paul
F'burg, VA
Have you considered using the Watco itself as a filler? Simply wet sand with the oil with 320 grit. The sawdust and oil will pack the pores giving you a glass like surface with very little work.
Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
Don,
Doesn't Watco have a tendency to ooze from open grained woods such as oak?
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Not when it's mixed with the sawdust...... otherwise, yeah, it's a pain.
Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
It can ooze even after it's been wiped, should the wood go from cold to warm. Early in my ww careeer i made knife blocks that were finished in Watco. One December i finshed a batch in the cold shop, loaded them in the cold truck, took them to the show and quickly sold two of them to a lady who subsequently wrote me a note that she had set them on her antique tablecloth when she got home and they bled out of the end grain. Ouch.
Finally got an answer over at Jeff's site -- he agrees that I must have filled before the filler was dry. Says to scrub with lacquer thinner and then apply another round of filler, let dry several days, and finish. Wish I had some of that water-based filler on hand. Oh well...Thanks guys.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Sounds like a good plan. The lacquer thinner should remove the Watco and re-open the pores so you can fill them. You may have to "scrub" a bit to get all of it. If you have a varnish remover on hand it will save some elbow grease.Paul
F'burg, VA
Hi Don. Well, no luck on this end. I'm going to start all over, believe it or not (and I mean all over, new wood). Tell me, when you do the wet-sanding with the Watco on bare wood, do you do that with the Natural, even if you are going to use, say, a Medium Walnut or whatever, later?? When I sanded with Light Walnut (which is the stain the customer selected from my stained-wood samples), I just got ugly, gritty looking dark pores. Granted, this was on the piece I had already screwed up with the whole pore filling mess, but I'm curious as to your method from "start to finish" so to speak.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Well, folks, back to the drawing board with this one. Got to say, though, I really can't see using Watco on unfilled oak! What a mess it seems it would be, when you have those long pores, let alone the straight, deep ones, for that stuff to get into and then decide, whenever it feels like it, to ooze back out.
In Jeff Jewitt's "Great Finishes" book, he talks of pigment/dye combination stains, but doesn't give any trade-name examples. He definitely gives the impression there are some ready-made. In the comparison oak pieces he provides pictures of, I like the combination stain the best. Anyone know of what he speaks (trade-name examples)?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I used Watco, once.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood
The walnut coloring in the Watco is made from a substance that colors wood like a dye AND stain - the look you are seeking with the dye/pigment stain. If you have a copy of Bob Flexner's book, Understanding Wood Finishing, look on page 266 for an exmple of the coloring Watco produces on bare oak.
If you apply the Watco with a lighty wetted rag, and don't flood the wood surface, you should not experience the pore bleeding that's been described. The biggest mistake I can think of using a oil/varnish product like Watco would be to try and build an appreciable film. It's a "close to the wood finish" and 2-3 coats wiped on with light sanding bewteen coats produces the best results.
There are a number of stain brands that are dye/pigment blends. Two of the more comon brands are Minwax and Benjamin Moore penetrating oil stains. If you want the Watco color without the oil, get the Minwax Jacobean stain or Sherwin Williams Gilsonite stain. If either stain is too dark, you can reduce the color by thinning with mineral spirits or naptha. Use a wiping varnish over the stain (whichever you choose) for an easy, durable finish. Waterlox makes a nice wiping varnish.
BTW - I noticed Andy Charron is contributing on this board, including this thread.
Paul
F'burg, VA
I normally use the clear as a finish but the medium shade does give walnut a nice chocolate color. First coat applied with brush or rag as usual. Then on the second coat just wet say a 12"x12" area at a time and sand with the 320 grit. If you have stained with medium use the medium for wet sanding. That way the color of the pore filling is the same. You should feel a little resistance while sanding, if the paper glides there is too much oil. You can actually scrape some of this slurry off the paper to fill unusually large spots..... But be careful to wipe the surface well, once the slurry dries it is as hard as cement. Then I sand with 600 on the final coat.
Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
See http://www.fuhrinternational.com . They sell/mfg sprayable transparent grain filler. It is designed to be sprayed. Homestead finishing I think sells the stuff.
I got slapped the last time I posted this here, so we'll see what happens. As a test, I tried filling the pores in oak one time with West System epoxy and sanding dust. I mixed it fairly thick but not so stiff that it was a struggle to press it into the pores. Squeegeed it off with an old credit card, let it sit overnight and sanded off the residue. I put three or four coats of some linseed oil finish on it and didn't see any bad interactions between the epoxy and the finish.
The sanding dust I used was something really dark, probably rosewood or wenge. Unusual treatment for oak, but I thought it was attractive.
Hi FG,
I'll throw in my $.02 here.
I work almost exclusively in White Oak..great stuff but BIG pores...kind of like an adolescent boy...smile.
I was interested in pore-filling technique and so asked Jeff Jewitt on his website (the best finishing site IMHO) and his reply was interesting....why fill the pores at all? Indeed, part of the "look" of Oak is the pore-effect. He recommended his usual dye, seal w/shellac deal and then emphasize the pores with gel-stain..wipe on and then wipe off....leaves the stain in the pores but nowhere else... For Arts & Crafts/Mission furniture, it's killer! Heck, Stickly used to finish his pieces with black furniture was...as a pore-enhancer.
I think you're wise to reconsider wood choice if you don't want pores.
Good luck..and post some pics of this project. I don't have the sligthest idea what you're building.
lp
Hi Larry, thanks for the info. Just to note, oak wasn't my choice it was the customer's :-) I'd much rather have built this out of alder. I like Jeff's site too -- 'cept he's got so much stuff over there, hard to decide where to go and what to buy!
Speaking of white oak, I have plans to build a fold-up outdoor bench with white oak. Any tips?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You'll like White Oak for outdoors..particularly if you use quartersawn...very stable, harder than Red Oak and BEAUTIFUL!
My favorite finish is dye, followed by Garnet Shellac (2 lb cut as a sealer), Barleys Dark Mahogany as a pore filler (wipe off immediately after wiping on) and then poly or clear lacquer...although I don't think I'd do all of that for an outdoor project.
Good luck. Send us pictures!
lp
I tend to agree Larry. Part of the charm of oak is its open grain, but I find the open pore or grain look less charming in mahogany or walnut, especially in a table or cabinet top. In walnut and mahogany, I'll leave all the vertical members open grained, but I'll often fill the pores of the top horizontal surface. However, filling oak can be fun too, as I hope this image illustrates. Slainte.
View Image
Some stuff I've made.
FG - U used a wood filler instead of a pore, or grain, filler? They are different things. Pore or grain filler is basically powdered clays in an oil based suspension.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
Mike, I used a pore filler -- Daly's to be precise. It's called "wood filler" on the front of the can, but the fine print reads indicates it's for filling pores to achieve a smoother finish on open-pore woods. Today, I'm dragging the pieces out and trying the wet-sand-with-Watco technique to see if I can salvage these. If I ever make another one of these from oak, I'll be using a completely different approach.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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