i am working on a project in red oak plain sliced plywood (a/c) and solid oak face frame. I am wondering if anyone recomends filling the pores and what would be the best way to do this. i have only worked with a little oak , as i mostly work in pine , alder , maple and luann (which i don’t mind the look of the pores and have never bothered to fill). the project is for a pub glassware shelving unit and is going to be stained a darkish burgendy/brown at the clients request. i will be staining (i was thinking a gel stain, any pros and cons?) and topcoating with waterbased varathane.i think it would look better with the pores filled, but am concerned about muddying the surface and/or sanding through the (ridiculously thin ) face veneer. it will be tucked into an alcove so only the ‘A’ side will show. i would appreciate any good advice anyone has to offer and look forward to conversing with people in the future, as this is my first( and probably the most rambling) post. Thanks again. p.s. Any suggestions on a better handle? although i strive for gossimer shavings in my work, i don’t think it’s a very ‘cool’ name. It was in an ad i read and was the first handle i came accross that wasn’t taken ( thanks alot , Benchdog, for beating me to it!)
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Oak is so hard to fill that I usually don't do it, and unless you get the job done completely can look pecular if partially filled.
The gel stain has some pluses in that it will be fairly easy to keep uniform coloring for both the ply and the solid wood. However, it comes with almost the same problem of muddying the surface as using filler. Since it doesn't penetrate much, it has to sit on the surface to get a dark overall effect.
I'd want to do some experimenting on this one. For example, one approach might be to use a dye, (water based unless you spray dye,in which case alcohol based ) to set a basic brown tone. This can then be sealed with dewaxed shellac. Over this I would apply a pigmented only stain that would contribute the burgudy red tones. (It might actually be almost purple or red to end up with an overall look of burgundy red.) This would give a kind of dynamic color with the grain standing out a bit. From a usual viewing distance you would see the overall dark brown/burgundy, but up close you would see the pores filled with a bit of contrast. And since the background was already dyed you could wipe enough filler or stain off to keep the surface clear leaving with extra color in the pores. Then you could apply your favorite top coat, sealing the stain with another coat of dewaxed shellac if there is any compatibiity issue. I've never done this exactly but I'd think it could be brought off without too much struggle.
thanks for the advice everyone. i am almost ready to start finishing, so i will let you know how it turns out. thanks again! talk to you soon.
Gossimershavings,
You might want to take a look at 22470.14...a recent discussion about finihsing oak..in the mission style. I applied this protocol (stain, shellac, gel stain, wipe on poly)about a month ago and it really came out well. In my case, the color variation of the oak was quite significant and was blended nicely.
Plywood always makes me nervous, but I'll pass along a compromise suggestion for oak in general, especially red oak: wetsanding with the finish. It helps fill the pores, results in a very attractive finish, but doesn't take the labor and perfection that standard pore-filling does. Have no idea whether this would work on plywood. Also, in general, if you're going to stain plywood, a washcoat is in order. Ply doesn't take stain very evenly. By all means, take Steve's advice and do lots of practice scraps before tackling the item itself.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I HAD A SIMILAR PROJECT FOR A CUST.
THE APPROACH I TOOK WAS TO START WITH A STAIN SEALER JUST TO EVEN OUT THE COLOR. THEN I WENT WITH A GEL STAIN WHICH WAS THE FIRST TIME I USED AND FOUND THE RESULTS VERY GOOD. I THEN BUILT UP 4 COATS OF SPRAY LAC. IT WAS A SMALL PROJECT SO I USED THE SPRAY CANS OF LACQUER. IT DRIES VERY FAST AND FOUND THAT WHEN I GOT TO THE 3RD COAT IT FILLED THE PORES AT THAT POINT. FOR COMMERCIAL USE I MIGHT HIT IT WITH 5-6 COATS. DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE PROJECT IT CAN ALL BE SPRAYED IN 1 DAY. LASTLY, BECAUSE THE CUSTOMER I HAD WANTED THE LOOK OF MFG CABINETS, I SHOT IT WITH ONE COAT OF LACQUER TONNER. THAT REALLY BROUGHT THE WHOLE HUE AND TONES OF THE COLOR ON THE PROJECT TOGETHER. IF I DIDNT FINISH IT MYSELF I WOULD GUESS IT WAS DONE IN A LARGE FACTORY FINISH DEPT.
HOWEVER, I ONLY DO WORK FOR MYSELF AND VERY GOOD FREIND'S. I HAVE A DIFFERENT CAREER. WOODWORKING IS MY HOBBY FOR ABOUT 17 YRS. THE LAST 3 I'VE REALLY BUILT A NICELY EQUIPPED SHOP AND BEEN HAVING A GREAT TIME. I DON'T THINK I COULD BUILD FOR A LIVING. FEW PEOPLE APPRECIATE NICELY BUILT PROJECTS. PLUS I GO TOO SLOW ANYWAY...
All caps is really hard to read, and usually connotes shouting on the web.
Sorry, my work requires all caps. so very used to. new to the site.
Welcome, I think you'll find this a very useful site.
Red oak is easily filled, you can buy the filler in different stains already mixed. You may have to mix in a bit of solvent to get it to a peanut butter consistency.
Put it on in small areas,two square feet or less at one time. Use a putty knife with the corners filed round, push the mix into the grain. Initially you can put it on with or against the grain.Pull the excess off AGAINST the grain. With moldings you probably have to go with the grain for the most part. Pulling off the excess against the grain with the putty knife keeps the filler in the pores.
When the filler hazes over,usually within 20 minutes,you remove the rest with clean burlap. You can buy burlap at any garden center.Cut the burlap in 12" squares.Fold over and make a 4" or so pad.Wipe against the grain. The pad will fill quickly with filler. Turn pad and repeat. Repeat this process with clean burlap until no filler appears on the pad. DRAPE FILLED PADS OVER A LINE OR A TRASH CAN.When the pads are dry and stiff, then you can throw them out. The pads can cause spontaneous combustion if thrown in a pile while damp.
A waterbased top caot is ideal for red oak, the finish does not yellow.There is no need to sand except your initial sanding before finishing.Go to a reputable paint store,they can help you get compatible topcoats and the filler. I have used natural oak filler( do not recall the brand) this is akin to a golden oak finish on minwax cans.
mike
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