Replies

1. 
   Howard_Acheson | Dec 08, 2001 11:28pm | #1

   *
   There was nothing wrong with what you used, just the timing. You must let the varnish fully cure before you apply a paste wax. For three coats of the T&T, five days is not enough. The test is the odor. If it has an odor, it's not cured yet. Wait until the odor if not apparent before applying the wax.

   Oh, and don't ever use Briwax on an oil finish less than a year old. The solvent used in Briwax will damage a new oil based finish.

1. 
   sbaia_ | Dec 09, 2001 08:31pm | #2

   *Howard,I'm just finishing a piece with 5 coats of thinned down quick dry gloss varnish. Glad to read your advice to wait before waxing. What wax would you recommend and can you offer a technique to rub out the finish to a satin sheen?ThanksSteve

1. 
   Rob_Millard | Dec 09, 2001 10:31pm | #3

   *Steve,You were smart to go with a rubbed on varnishEven though you did not ask me, I’ll give my 2 cents worth. I used the T&T Oil Varnish on a project recently, and while I truly dislike oil finishes, it came out nice. Having said that, it wasn’t worth the effort I put in it. I could have achieved the same look, with one or two coats of oil followed by some thin shellac. I’ll never use the varnish oil again (by itself). I use shellac for any surface you can’t sit something on, and varnish for those you can. Shellac is much quicker and easier to apply than any other finish. As for rubbing out, after taking care of any dust or application marks, I use steel wool, charged with pumice and or rotten- stone, with mineral oil as a lubricant. For a high polish I switch to a felt block, with the same mixture on it. On carved areas, I apply this mixture with a shoe shine brush, to avoid rubbing through. I rarely wax anything, but if I do, I make sure the surface is completely free of any oil, from the rubbing out process or the wax will just smear.I have not waxed a varnished surface, so I can offer no help there.

1. 
   Howard_Acheson | Dec 10, 2001 02:29am | #4

   *Steve, everyone has their favorite. I used to be a Simonize guy but can't find it anymore. So, I use Johnson's Paste Wax but I'm sure Minwax, Butchers, Fiddes are all good.

1. 
   Bill_Lindau | Dec 15, 2001 03:18pm | #5

   *After reading the review of Tried and True in the last regular issue of FWW, I tried it and found the article to be true. The Oil Varnish needs a couple to three days to cure for each coat. When rubbed with fine steel wool there should appear a white powder as a sign that that coat is cured and that it's time for the next coat. After three coats I applied T+T Original Wood Finish which is a blend of pure linseed oil and beeswax. That's the most fun I've ever had applying a finish. Since then I bought a gallon of each product. Even though it's a bit of a hassel to have a piece sitting around my dusty shop the extra time, it's worth the trade off of using these friendly products.Bill

2. 
   Gregg_Robertson | Dec 31, 2001 07:53pm | #6

   *Folks,I recently completed a cherry dining room table before Christmas and was trying to decide how to finish it when the issue came with the Tried and True article. I bought the "original" Tried and True finish with beeswax and linseed oil. I usually use either tung oil or boiled linseed oil on my pieces because it's fairly foolproof and very durable, so I have some experience with it. I applied three coats, rubbing it out each time time with 0000 steel wool after letting it dry for 24-48 hours. It looked beautiful and so we hauled the table to the dining room a few days before Christmas and had Christmas dinner on it. When we finished dinner, the top had water rings where glasses sat and spots where there were minor spills. The grain had raised in these areas and the finish seemed to disappear. This has not been my experience with other linseed oil products, which have given me a finish that is nearly indestructible on heavy use surfaces like a kitchen table and a butcher block island. When I rubbed the tabletop out with steel wool, the marks disappeared, but I don't want to do this each time we have dinner on the table. I applied two coats of Behlen's Tung Oil finish over top of the T&T Original, but when I tested it, I still got water marks and raised grain.Two questions: 1) Is this typical performance from T&T Original finish? If so I'll scratch it off my list and go back to regular boiled linseed oil or tung oil. 2) What's the easiest way to finish or refinish the top? This table will be getting heavy use. Thanks. Gregg

3. 
   Gretchen_ | Jan 01, 2002 01:04am | #7

   *Why not wipe on some 50/50 varnish/ mineral spirits to give an impermeable finish for a piece that will be getting such heavy use. My personal preference is marine spar (not Poly) satin finish. It is a gorgeous soft muted finish that is indestructible.

4. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Jan 01, 2002 01:39am | #8

   *Greg,I've not used the so called "Tried and True" but, would suggest that you reread what Rob and Howie had to say on that subject. My "tried and true" are the methods I've been using for 25 years as a professional (with the exception of Min Wax Wipe on Poly).b ;)Since the table is going to see heavy use, I will recommend the use of a wipe on polyurethane. On such pieces that will see heavy use that I am commissioned to do, I will use Min Wax Wipe On Poly. It does offer the protection and will give a hand rubbed look as they advertise, the only variation is that I use 6 coats as opposed to the recommended three.I will also qualify further by saying that spar varnish (among others) sees considerable use in my finish applications (Interlux or Epifanes). Spar varnish is not impermeable nor indestructible, no film or penetrating finish is. The fact is, spar varnish will never cure to 100%. This is the main reason why it is so heavily used in the wooden boat building trades. It not only allows the wood to "breath" it also allows the wood to move without cracking the finish.Both Interlux and Epifanes offer modified polyurethanes for interior use that also achieve not only a rubbed effect but, superior durability as well. Interlux's Goldspar Satin 60 can be sprayed or brushed on, has the durability to be used on cabin soles with a finish look very well suited for fine furniture.Dano

5. 
   Gretchen_ | Jan 01, 2002 03:36am | #9

   *I will also qualify further by saying that spar varnish (among others) sees considerable use in my finish applications (Interlux or Epifanes). Spar varnish is not impermeable nor indestructible, no film or penetrating finish is. The fact is, spar varnish will never cure to 100%. This is the main reason why it is so heavily used in the wooden boat building trades. It not only allows the wood to "breath" it also allows the wood to move without cracking the finishThat would make it flexible and therefore not subject to chipping as a more brittle polyurethane finish is. Of course, nothing is "impermeable" or "indestructible" but the use of spar is a close finish to the old "long oil" varnishes before poly was ever thought of. It is a wonderful and soft alternative to the "plasticness" of poly, in my opinion.

6. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Jan 01, 2002 05:39am | #10

   *Gretchen,I can only assume your post is directed at me. FYI, my "preferences" are set at the default setting as I have indicated to you before. There also may be a large number of others who do the same. Please give us the common courtesy of addressing those you reply to by their name. Thank you.I agree that spar varnish has many advantages, used in appropriate applications.Like you I was very skeptical of polyurethanes and stayed away from them entirely. This was until I experimented with Min Wax Wipe on Poly not long after it came on the market. These "experiments" were conducted on pieces for my own use. I am extremely confident that if you would take the time and effort to try it, you will not detect a "plastic" look.This would also hold true for the products I mentioned previously, though they are not as easy to apply as simply wiping them on.Dano

7. 
   Gretchen_ | Jan 01, 2002 04:54pm | #11

   *Well, Danford, why don't you hit the "reply" button so it will appear as a thread like mine does. Then everyone will know you are adding to a discussion already in progress.

8. 
   Danford_C._Jennings | Jan 01, 2002 07:48pm | #12

   *Gretchen,Look, as I have mentioned the default is to see these postings in order of their posting, hitting a reply key makes no difference. There are many who use this setting. "Everyone" knows I am adding to the discussion by the simple fact that I post. Everyone also knows who I am replying to since I use the common courtesy of addressing a person by their name. I see no reason to change to accommodate a single person as you seem to be the only one here who has a problem with my settings.I suggest that if you have further problems with the manner in which I post, you take these concerns off line with me or Tim.Dano

9. 
   Bill_Lindau | Jan 03, 2002 05:41am | #13

   *Gregg, My limited experiece with the Tried and True line has been to use the Varnish Oil to build up a durable surface, and to then finish off with the linseed/beeswax(T&T Original). But any surface that has a coat of wax will leave rings if a wet glass is set on it. T&T also has an English Polish which has an even higher resin content than the Oil Varnish. This would probably be a better top coat for a table. All these T&T products are expensive and dry slowly (they don't have driers in them). I plan on trying them for awhile on jobs where time is not too crucial. When I need something to dry overnight, I use Sam Maloof's Poly/Oil available from Rockler. It builds up fast and doesn't tack up too fast.Bill