I’m nearing completion on a cherry chest of drawers, first time using cherry, and am wondering what kind of finish to apply. I would like to use a handrubbed oil finish of some sort that has some protective characteristics, which brings me to the oil/varnish combinations. This is where it gets confusing – Watco, Danish, Tung, Linseed, etc. etc. I know that each manufacturers particular type is different with regard to purity of oil or blend with varnish to create a rubbing varnish. This is what I would like, can someone offer a suggestion – a finish that I can apply by hand, that after 4 to 5 coats will give me a deep, rich finish with some protection from use. Ideally it will darken the wood somewhat, but not like a stain would as cherry will naturally darken over time anyway. The piece is a chest of drawers, tall, so there shouldn’t be a tremendous amount of wear placed on the top. Is teak oil an option, although my experience with this and boats makes me think it would be a slow drier? The tried and true boiled linseed oil seems like too much work, how is their other product, the varnish finish? Thanks.
Edited 11/7/2002 2:38:04 PM ET by BOY_PLUNDER
Replies
Boy,
Once again I'll put in my plug for Minwax "Tung Oil Finish." It is an oil/varnish mix. Alkyd varnish, who knows what else (some Tung? some Linseed?). It is foolrpoof like all such mixtures. It is applied in the traditional way - flood it on, keep it wet for 10-20 minutes, wipe it ALL off before it gets too tacky to wipe. If it gets too tacky, get it wet with some additional mixture.
It starts to build after 2-3 applications about 48 hours apart. With the 3rd or 4th coat, I don't flood it on, I "pad" it on using very little on the rag and it starts to "polish" as it goes on with a very thin film almost like padding lacquer.
It builds to a very protective, thin film varnish which after about 5-6 coats has an excellent lustre and imparts a warm, slighty amber, darkening effect. Try it on a scrap that you have sanded to 400 grit. It's quite beautiful.
Rich
Edited 11/7/2002 2:02:03 PM ET by Rich Rose
Boy
I've never worked with Cherry so I can't tell from experience but with the woods I've worked with I've had good results from all the finishes you mentioned. The Walnut desk I'm sitting at I refinished a couple of years ago using Danish oil. It is a flat finish no shine at all. The Oak bookcase I built for my daughter in Dallas I used 4 coats of Watco. It has a nice sheen to it. I've used pure Tung on close grain woods and have been very pleased with the results. Pure linseed oil has to be renewed occasionally no sheen at all.
Watco is a wiping varnish which means it is simply a varnish thinned down for ease of application. I've used it and will use it again when I want a finish with a sheen to it.
If I was going for an oiled finish I would probably use the Tung oil. Applied with a small cloth a very thin coat, let set a few minutes wipe off excess let dry 24 hours, buff with 0000 steel wool, tack cloth wipe, apply another coat of Tung oil. 3 or 4 coats.
If you stain you might want to apply a thin coat of Tung oil to the end grain of any exposed wood such as the top ends of your chest. This seals it and you will have a more even finish, if you don't these ends will be darker than the rest of the piece.
Good Luck
les
As Dick has said, most "Danish Oils" and "Tung Oil Finishes" are very similar. They all are mixtures of varnish, oil and a thinner in various proportions. They are also applied pretty much the same. Flood on, let soak 15-30 minutes and wiped dry. They are all about the same in protective qualities too namely, not too protective but much more protective than linseed oil or pure tung oil.
The one caution I have is not to use them on the inside or the case or drawers if the item will be used for cloth or clothing storage. The oils off gas almost forever and the odor will permeate the cloth. Either don't finish the insides at all or use a shellac or waterborne finish.
After a month or so, the Minwax product has no odor that I can notice. I have never noticed any objectionable odor from well-polymerized Tung-only finish either.
I dislike a Linseed-only finish. It stinks forever and eventually smells rancid.
R
I have never used an oil/varnish product inside an enclosed space so I will have to defer to your experience.
I was reading over at the New Yankee site that they use a sanding sealer topped with a coat of poly for the inside of the carcass and drawers.
I know that Norm does that and it makes no sense. The sanding sealer he uses is a lacquer based sanding sealer which provides no protection for the wood, when used by itself, and a lacquer based sanding sealer should never be used under a polyurethane varnish. The stearates(soap) in the sanding sealer causes a very weak bond with poly varnish.
Boy,
My two cents, I know you asked about Oil/Varnish finish and what I am going to try to sell you is not EXACTLY what you asked for... Here goes, give Bartley Gel Varnish a try, it is easy to apply, not much smell, has a amber color and builds to a very 'tight' finish like a oil/varnish..If you apply enough coats (3 to 4) you can get a very nice satin build..
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=7745.6
my thoughts from an earlier post
It has been awhile since I worked with Cherry, but I know that it darkens with age more than some woods. Thus any varnish, oil/varnish or wiping varnish will darken more than say orange shellack. Sounds like you already realize that oil/varnish will not give the protection of varnish or shellack.
As for the oil/varnish blends. I have used them for years, and had good success mixing Watco natural with Verathane professional gloss to get a higher gloss. As both are similiar chemicaly, they mix ok. After reading numerous articles on finishing I am now using a homemade blend of spar varnish and boiled linseed oil. The first coat is a 1:1:1 blend of varnish/oil/turpintine plus some stain to color the wood as desired. The next three coats are essentially a 2:1 ratio of varnish to oil, with a very small amount of turp to thin a little. Apply and let set 10-15 minuets (just befor it gets tacky), then wipe off completely, then wipe again to insure it is all off. If not, you will get "shiny" spots and rough areas where you did not get it off. These can be taken down with 0000 steel wool. Let dry 24 hours between coats. After 2-3 coats of the 2:1 blend you get a nice sheen.
Making your own blend insures you know what you are working with, and you can experiment with the ratios to get more or less sheen.
A post from another thread that is interesting as well:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=8762.17
The tried and true boiled linseed oil seems like too much work, how is their other product, the varnish finish?
The varnish is a bit thicker so a bit more work. I've used both and feel the linseed gives a better looking finish. I've never gotten any kind of a shine out of the varnish.
Good luck - Lar
I have had pretty good success with cherry by first applying a coat of sanding sealer (Oil based not lacquer based), sanding gently with 220 grit when dry, thoroughly dusting with a tack cloth then applying as many coats of Minwax's "Wipe on Poly Satin" as I have patience for (this usually means about 5 coats). Minwax Wipe on Poly is very user friendly even though it is incredibly thin: one pint at Walmart costs about $10 and goes a long way, it can be applied with a soft cloth, dries fast, builds to a nice lustre and depth, is easily touched up, and in daily use is quite durable. Also, this finish seems best for my shop which is often dusty, cold, cramped, and unorganized (that is where the touchup asset comes in :+).
Edited 11/8/2002 5:24:37 PM ET by sawick
As has been suggested previously you can absolutely make your own wipe-on varnish by diluting varnish 50/50 with mineral spirits. You are paying a lot of money for a half strength finish.Gretchen
Minwax wipe on poly is a different animal altogether. It sands after the first coat just like a good laquer sanding sealer, and builds some good depth after 2.
I'm in the final stages of finishing a walnut slant front desk, and did the whole Sam Maloof finish, which is sand to 400, then 4-5 coats of the oil/poly, then 2-3 coats of the poly/wax. After a week and a half, and sore fingers and arms from rubbing hard to get the heat up I was not at all satsified with the results. It's great when it first goes on, the colors just glow, then you wipe it in/off and the colors go with it. What is gorgeous, turns to dark mud. So I got a fresh can of minwax(satin) and after the first coat it glowed again, then I sanded it, and got the second coat on this afternoon....still glowing and getting better with every coat.
For paying customers, and all the trim on houses I build I usually shoot 5 coats of laquer(3 sanding, 2 finish) It is a really great finish for everyone. It's smooth, has great color and depth(providing the wood is nice and the stain job is good) but it just feels like a cheap and dirty finish, and certainly not worthy of an heirloom piece of furniture. It does however get a lot of oohs and aahhs when people rub it, and that alone has sold houses for me. Cha-ching.
I guess I'm having problems coming to terms with the finish on this piece. I've been saving this wood for 15 years, and got it from house that was 170 years old(it was the baseboard 2 x 8 full ,knot free tight grained walnut) I wnat something that looks great, but that will stand the test of time...thus the rub in Sam Maloof finish....and here I am...back to the tried and true wipe on poly.
Keith,
Why do you describe a sprayed lacquer finish as cheap and dirty and not worthy of an heirloom piece.
Lacquer is as fine a finish as you can apply. Properly applied it is beautiful and durable. It can give the look of a very "close to the wood" finish in thin coats, or can be built up to a very thick and durable film.
There is much too much mystique about "rubbed oil finishes." Most are really just thin films of varnish as the mixtures are essentially "wiping" varnishes of one formulation or another, some with some oil in them, some not.
Rich
Edited 11/9/2002 9:10:13 PM ET by Rich Rose
I guess I don't consider it a fine finish because I can take a airless sprayer into a house and stain the trim in one day, next day shoot one coat of sealer, sand it before noon, spray the scond coat the same day, first thing the next day spray the third sealer, sand before noon, spray the first finish coat, and in the morning the last coat. I've spent 4 days , virtually no prep work and it's looks killer! I can blow over rough grain cheap oak, and it fills and comes smooth......(okay, in other words.. I can polish a turd.)
I don't know how it holds up to wear. I know it fractures the finish with a small nick(easily repaired however) and color putty bleaches out if you don't get it on before the last seal coat. But some say it will evaporate off in 20-30 years and look raw. I also know not to use it on window sashes and sills as it does not take sun well.
Also, if ou have a finish that kitchen cabinet makers can spray in bulk and package and wrap the same day.....
I'm old fashioned I guess, I think if it can be done that fast, basically sprayed out of a windex bottle, and it looks that good with so little work, it can't be very good.
Then again...I could be totally wrong
Keith,
Shellac or lacquer can be sprayed with whatever you've got handy. In the hands of a good finisher they are the best finishes known to mankind.
R
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