Replies

1. 
   riverr1 | Oct 21, 2002 07:47am | #1

   I suppose the easiest, and maybe one of the most expensive, would be to buy a ships auger and an extension.

   Don

2. 
   JPGrout | Oct 21, 2002 08:07am | #2

   Rip it in half, dado it 1 1/4" wide 5/8"deep, glue it back together. Does it have to be round? Joe

3. 
   RSRose | Oct 21, 2002 08:07am | #3

   Rip it into two halves. Rout a 5/8 round bottom channel in each half. Glue back together.

   Just like a pencil is made.

   R

4. 
   LeeEschen | Oct 21, 2002 11:05am | #4

   The problem with all of the ripping strategies is that when it's glued back together, it will no longer be 3" wide because of the kerf. The starting size of the block was a given and nothing allowed that any outer dimension should change. I'd have to vote for the ship's auger method.

   --

   Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon

   On the Redwood Highway

5. 
   krumy1 | Oct 21, 2002 12:29pm | #5

   If you know someone with a shopsmith, this is exactly the kind of thing the horizontal boring feature would be good at.  You really only need to bore 18" from either end. That's not near as intimidating as 36" from one end only. With the combination of the table and the auxilliary table it would be pretty simple to get it line up and drilled.

   Steve K

1. 
   DavidxDoud | Oct 21, 2002 04:33pm | #6

   thanks to each of you - - I need to carve a snake around a staff - the hole needs to be round -  the 3" is nominal,  splitting the board would be permissible -

   Rich,  a 5/8" router bit and a split board would result in a 5/8" X 1 1/4" more or less oval hole,  would it not?

   I'm not familiar with ships augers - I do know that regular auger bits and end grain doesn't work very well,  any suggestions on how to align the bore? also sources of bits?

   With a shopsmith,  would you use an auger? spade? I'm sure I must know someone with one,  if I wanted to travel to Montana,  Splinty has one for $400 -

   I had thought of splitting and using a 'round' plane (as in 'hollows' and 'rounds') - let's see,  the width of a 'round' is nominally 1/6th the diameter of the circle,  humm... gonna have to do a little math to get the size of the plane -

1. 
   RSRose | Oct 21, 2002 06:30pm | #7

   Dave,

   "Rich,  a 5/8" router bit and a split board would result in a 5/8" X 1 1/4" more or less oval hole,  would it not?""

   Yup, sorry. Must use a 1-1/4 diam cutter, plunged to 5/8 on each half of the cut.

   If the job can accomodate the saw kerf, I think that ripping the piece in half may ultimately be the easiest way to acomplish the result. You could use a bandsaw for the job to get the least waste from the kerf.

   If you get a drill long enough, or with extensions, you can do it. But I wonder about the bit wandering and eventually getting way off line.

   R

2. 
   Kell | Oct 21, 2002 10:17pm | #8

   David,

   I have a shopsmith and I have concerns about being able to drill a hole 18" long from each end that meet in the middle, especially one that is 1 1/4" wide.  You have to be absolutely 90 degrees in two planes to pull this off and my Mark V just isn't that tight.  Depending on the grain of the wood, the bit may move off center following the grain, too.

   How about splitting the blank and cutting a cove on the table saw?  Frankly, the cove bit in a router table is the best method but the cove on a table saw would be second if you can't find a bit that large.

   Good luck!

   Kell

1. 
   krumy1 | Oct 22, 2002 03:04am | #11

   Kell, actually it's pretty easy to set up. The work has to be treated as if it were in a lathe. Not sure but I think the 36" length is actually beyond the capacity of the shopsmith for drilling so an auxilliary tail stock would have to be fashioned. Since I've done this sort of operation before I have a spade bit that I have ground down to bore a #2 morse taper. That's the same as is on the live center for the lathe. What you do is to attach a piece of wood, drill it to accept the live center. Now, the bore and drill bit are perfectly aligned. Install the center and mount the work. As long as one center line is place on the tail stock and the other center line is drilled they will line up just fine. To bore the second hole the live center would have to be replaced with a dowel located the same way.

   I do agree that drilling a 1-1/4" hole 18" into end grain would be difficult and there is the chance of the drill wandering off center. To me, that's a bigger concern than the set up.

   Steve K

3. 
   krumy1 | Oct 22, 2002 03:07am | #12

   David, I'm confused about what you're doing.  That seems to me to be an awfully big staff. I've made a few walking sticks and they finish out at around 1-1/2" on the big end. Just curious.

   Steve K.

1. 
   bobhallsr | Oct 22, 2002 04:47am | #13

   Yeah, Krumy, but how much Jack Daniels would your walking stick hold.

   BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland

2. 
   DavidxDoud | Oct 22, 2002 05:08am | #14

   Steve,  I want to produce a wooden snake wrapped around a staff - i've seen one,  it was part of the regalia of the 'Odd Fellows' lodges that used to be common thru our area - the staff will be app. 1 1/4" in diameter.  I plan on making a block that will fit around the staff,  and then remove everything that doesn't look like a snake - should be challenging and a good project to work on this winter - getting this hole in the block is the only part of the operation that I don't have some kind of handle on - splitting the block and routing/planing out a groove and glueing back together is looking likely at this point - I don't  have the power tool to turn the auger,  and no great interest in spending $50 on an auger and then modifying it - I do thank Gary W for the fine explanation of some of the finer points surrounding augering - Weld a stout shaft ...insuring ..perfectly straight...powerful electric hand drill..make a jig ...drill in line ... too much,  I'm afraid,  and more precise and more $ than I'm likely to invest in a whimsy - - "I'm an artist,  not a technician"  ;-)  DOUD

1. 
   Splintie | Oct 22, 2002 06:05am | #15

   Darn, for a second i thought i might have a buyer for my Shopsmith after Benjamin stood me up.

   Are you going to carve the snake before attaching it to the staff, or glue it on first and then carve? I was thinking of the various problems of gluing it on later compared to not having to worry about gouging the staff while carving if glued on first. I was also considering the feasiblity of gluing up the two routed-out halves with a paper joint, then splitting it to wrap the two pieces around the staff and not smear the glue when you clamp/glue them back together...

   ...too much coffee, ya think??? 

2. 
   DavidxDoud | Oct 22, 2002 06:41am | #16

   definately carve and then attach - - should be able to slide it on and off as its worked - plan to do much of the work with a 'Lancelot' - -too much coffee? maybe add a little Kalua,  that'll take the edge off - projects like this often result from too much wild turkey or some such mood altering pharmacopeia -  I've got an order for 6 'cowfish',  to be passed on to the 'artist' and painted for the folkart market - the world is crazy -

3. 
   gweisenburge | Oct 22, 2002 07:01am | #17

   David,

   You're welcome. I too would choose a simpler way to get the hole in the workpiece, probably the router method.

   Now that I understand the carving part of your project, I'd  be inclined to glue the outer piece, what will become the snake, to the inner shaft, and then carve the snake. I'd be afraid of breaking the snake either while carving it or while trying to glue it to the shaft. Also, I think it'd be easier to carve away the glue from the shaft.

   namaste,

   Gary  

   Edited 10/22/2002 12:03:14 AM ET by Gary Weisenburger

4. 
   JPGrout | Oct 22, 2002 07:01am | #18

   Ok if it needs to be round then you could rip the piece in half and the set up the table saw to create a full cove cut 1 1/4" wide by 5/8" deep. I think you might have to change your saw blade from 10" to a smaller one but I believe that it can be done very accurately and half round is possible with the right angle on the fences and the correct blade diameter. Joe

5. 
   riverr1 | Oct 22, 2002 07:27am | #19

   Dave,

   Why not just expand your idea and carve away anything that isn't a snake or a walking stick?

   Don

6. 
   DavidxDoud | Oct 22, 2002 07:51am | #20

   Well,  I have considered it - I believe it will be easier in two pieces - - having examined an original,  (actually made of several pieces,  staff,  whatever you call the ornament at the top of the staff,  snake,  snake head w/sharpened wire fangs - that thing was set up to tattoo you in the chest - those 'Odd Fellows'!!) the body of the snake wrapped several times around the staff,  I think if you had the hole,  the helix of the body could be fairly readily shaped -- maybe a functional consideration,  a hardwood staff (drawknife and shaving horse)  and softwood for carving -

7. 
   Splintie | Oct 24, 2002 09:41pm | #21

   plan to do much of the work with a 'Lancelot'

   David, isn't that the chainsaw-thingey attached to a grinder used to rough out sculpted seats? Seems a little..um...gross. I keep having these visions of those huge cows and dinosaurs as roadside attractions, imagining you up on scaffolding making the "World's Tallest Snake" (only 400 miles to Wall Drug).   

8. 
   DavidxDoud | Oct 25, 2002 07:57am | #24

   a little..um...gross.

   Well..ah...yes - - but not for about 90% of the stock removal - I've used the 'Lancelot' quite a bit roughing out blanks (mostly fish shapes,  then painted by another for the folkart market),  and you could shave with it,  if your hand were steady enough (I am bearded BTW) - I expect the main problem to be visualizing the helical shape of the body as the chips are flying - probably finish the shaping with a spokeshave of some sort - I'll have to rummage thru the tool box -

   
9. 
   Splintie | Oct 25, 2002 10:15am | #27

   You realize, of course, that this job begs for a metal lathe with screw-making ability? Sharks always look so insanely happy!

10. 
    DavidxDoud | Oct 25, 2002 05:39pm | #28

    metal lathe with screw-making ability

    methinks it would be too regular - some sort of duplicator,  should I ever get one right,  might be a hot ticket - - I've done a dozen of those sharks,  and never had one turn out as satisfying as the first - they were techinically better,  but lack the animation that first one possesses -

11. 
    LeeEschen | Oct 24, 2002 11:22pm | #22

    SPLINTIE wrote: ...too much coffee, ya think???

    YUP!!!

    The only to carve it properly will be before it's on the stick. Putting it on the stick, I would pin and glue it top and bottom only. The center part ain't going nowhere.

    --

    Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon

    On the Redwood Highway

6. 
   riverr1 | Oct 21, 2002 10:23pm | #9

   If this hole location is critical, you might consider finding a machine shop with a gun drill and put in a pilot hole.

7. 
   gweisenburge | Oct 22, 2002 12:46am | #10

   David,

   Rich Rose's idea - to split the piece, rout each half, and then glue the halves together - is probably the simplest and most sure-fire way to get a perfectly centered hole. Just start with a piece that's a saw kerf wider than what you need to end up with.

   The problem with drilling a pilot hole, is that the long, probably 1/8-in-diameter drill bit will follow the grain, making it real difficult to come out in the center at the other end. Never mind drilling from each end, because meeting in the middle is just as difficult. For the same reason, I wouldn't use a drill bit with a lead screw, because it too will follow the grain.

   So, if you must drill, then a ship auger is your best bet, but use the right one:  use a barefoot ship auger. And know that if you choose this method that setup is pretty tricky. The longest hole I ever bored was 54-inches and 2 1/4-inch diameter (a prop shaft hole) and I was a little over 1/8-inch off at the other end. I was real lucky.

   Here's the skinny on ship augers:  they have only a single cutter without a spur, as versed to common augers with two spurred cutters. The spurs cut a cleaner entry than the ship auger, but, when boring into endgrain, the spur tends to follow grain, as does the lead screw on either type of auger. Most ship augers come with a lead screw, but you can turn one into a barefoot ship auger by grinding off the screw.

   Simply put:  To use the barefoot auger, start with a 2-inch deep hole drilled with a 1-1/4-inch Forstner bit. Weld a stout shaft extension to the barefoot auger, insuring that the entire weldement is perfectly straight, and then begin drilling. Unless your drill press (Shopsmith) can drill to 36-inches deep (unlikely), you should use a powerful electric hand drill. In that case you'll have to make a jig to keep the drill in line with the intended hole. When the auger's flutes are buried in the workpiece, you'll have to withdraw it often to clear the chips.

   Before you begin, challenge your friends to bet on your accuracy, as in where the auger will breakout at the other end. If I were you, I'd bet conservatively.

   Gary

8. 
   MichaelLomax | Oct 25, 2002 02:44am | #23

   Cut the poplar in quarters.

   Joint two edges of each quarter.

   Route the sharp corner  with a 5/8r cove bit. 

   Reassemble and go from there.

   Just a suggestion.

   Michael Lomax 

1. 
   DavidxDoud | Oct 25, 2002 07:59am | #25

   Thank you Michael - hadn't really considered it,  but by gluing up multible pieces,  I could control grain orientation,  possibly to good advantage - have to give it some thought -

1. 
   MichaelLomax | Oct 25, 2002 06:31pm | #29

   And aside from the 5/8 R router bit, I bet you have everything else you might need.

   Good luck!

   Michael Lomax

   P.S. Who gets the bonus points?

9. 
   NickC | Oct 25, 2002 08:54am | #26

   Here is a method that isn't quite as tedious as it sounds. Rip in half lengthwise, as others have suggested. Now put the pieces back together and scribe the circle on one end. Using a quarter-inch straight bit in your router, make successive cuts lengthwise (in each half, of course), varying the router's edge guide and the bit depth so you cut right to the line but not past it. This is easier with a router table, but I've done it with a handheld and it isn't bad. Now you have some ridges to clean up. A round cabimet scraper will work. You can also use a sanding drum in a portable drill. Now glue the pieces back together and make the snake. Good luck. Nick

10. 
    charlesm | Oct 25, 2002 08:58pm | #30

    I vote for the split and rout method. A round nose (core box) bit with 5/8" radius (Freud item# 18-130) is 1-1/4" diameter and should work perfectly.

    Charles M

    Freud, Inc.