OK, now I’m in trouble.
I’ve been playing at woodworking on and off for 40+ years, most spent as a butcher of wood. For the past few years I’ve been paying more attention to things and trying to hone my minimal skills. My plan/dream was to become good enough to make a small (read supplemental) income in my retirement – which is about 12 years down the road. As a means to that end I registered with the state and got all my tax numbers and permits.
I’ve been talking up my plans quietly with some friends and taking on very small jobs here and there just to convince the state that they are not subsidizing a hobby. Then, yesterday, I found myself suddenly in much deeper water.
I was talking with a friend at church and another member overheard my conversation and volunteered to start sending business my way. She works for a store that sells inserts and zero-clearance fireplaces. She said she gets a lot of calls for mantels and surrounds and would love to be able to refer people to me. And, like the dummy I am, I said “sure, that would be great”!
I’ve never built a mantle in my life.
I’m sure the skills I’ve developed would get me by on most simple designs (I fully intend to turn down work that is too far beyond my ability, but accept work that is challenging), but I really need to start boning up on some of the basics of FP mantel design. Because I have a full time job I can see myself accepting only a few such orders a year, but I want to do them well.
I already own Mr. Rodriguez’s fine book (I’ve had my eye on his G&G mantel for my own home). I’ll begin going through all the on-line magazine indexes next weekend.
Are there any other good sources on design out there? Anyone care to steer me in the right direction? (Other than to the nearest shrink)
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral.
Frank Lloyd Wright
Edited 7/10/2006 11:25 am by Rennie
Replies
Rennie,
You are on a roller coaster.
You are at the top, and are looking down.
Put your hands up in the air.
Accept the fact that you are no longer in control.
Enjoy the ride.
Mel
96,
You forgot about the part where you sream your lungs out! ;o)
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Edited 7/10/2006 12:04 pm by Rennie
Hi Rennie,
Were I to prepare diligently no business would come my way; were I to ignore the possibility of any fireplace commissions, I'd likley be deluged! Murphy lives!
I'd pay as much attention to preparing a bid and estimating a realistic timeframe for completion as the particulars related to fireplaces.
Whatever happens, good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
golden section=(square-root5)/2 - 1/2
base= h/5
captial =2h/15
column shaft max dia= h/9
min dia=h/18
So in terms of design, I think you can't go wrong with the classics. This is certainly a contentious topic in woodworking circles. Some find the subject tedious, others' pompous, etc. But few other aspects of what we do effect the customer as strongly as simple proportions. So if you find yourself in a pickle staring at a blank sheet of paper, I encourage you to start plugging in these proportions. The customer may tell you that they want moldings or don't want moldings, want this style of that. But they never tell you how big any of that should be. So these proportions are my defaults. I hope they help you.
Adam
Adam,
Thanks for the advice. Having seen your work on your web site I know it is both tried and true. Your work is exceptional. I have printed out your post and will refer to it regularly.Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Would you be willing to attach some annotations to your formula?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
The Golden section is easy to find, Just Google Golden Section. They break it down very simply. http://www.goldennumber.net . Go to the start here section. Enjoy.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Dear Rennie,
Congratulations! Dive in! Mantles are actually pretty nice to build. I wish I had those proportions that Adam posted, earlier in my career, as I always have sort of done them by "eye". In any event, my personal tastes run Colonial, and i have done several of this type. one of the things that I try to do, is to marry the Mantle to the room that it is in. I will use the existing base-cap profile in a detail, perhaps upside-down, such as the mantles edge, or even mimic the profile on a different scale with larger/smaller moulding. I tend to "layer" my work so that the details blend. I may use a solid crown with a bed moulding to create the "underneath" part of the mantle and so on. I would suggest a good book of moldings that are available in your area, as the profiles can really aid in the design phase. I would also strongly suggest that you stay away from primed materials for paint grade and GLUE everything. Every piece should be glued on, not just the joints, all of it. Working FPs dry the Hell out of the materials and the only way to avoid it becoming a mess is glue. Let your clients know ahead of time that some joints may open up, with use and time. A mantle is not a piano.
Best,
John
Sound advice - thanksRegard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
If you are approaching this as more of a hobby at this point than a business, be careful with schedules. When people buy a mantle along with their fireplace, most will want to see immediate results. I know that when I was a general contractor and I hired people with other careers to do side jobs, they often got in over their heads with being able to finish on time, schedule installations, make modifications/ repairs. Be careful that you don't end up damaging your reputation for the future.
I will side with Joby on this. In the early 80's I was asked to make mantels for medium priced homes on the side. These were just basic rectangular boxes for function as a housing boom was in place in Atlanta. I could pop out 4 on Sat. and 4 on Sunday. $75 apiece and I cleared about $60 after material. Not bad for early 80's and very easy, but.......
I did not see my family. I would get calls late at night from the contractor (friend) asking if I could get a few out during the week as the market was surely booming here at that time, etc. etc....
That's when I made a decision to never do any form of WW for pay, with a few isolated exceptions. I have never regretted that decision to this day. It was a wise decision for me personally. I go the shop to enjoy myself without a deadline looming over my head. If it didn't get done today, so what... there's tomorrow. Put on another pot of coffee. :>)
Good luck...
SARGE.. g-47
I have built only one and, being here, it is simple. However it was built in my shed in three parts, two sides and the top including mantle, and hung in place on concealed metal shelving brackets. If you could go down this path you could build a stock from which you could ring the changes to offer an apparent variety of designs and the fitting of your work would be quick and clean. Good luck.
Tip, Do a little reading on the Golden Section, The proportions are very eye appealing. People will think you are an artistic genious.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Rennie, I'm jumping in at #14 post position. Your question was about mantle design. You have gotten a lot of excellent additional information along the way which is usual for Knots. That is what I love about the forum.
The first mantle I made was a copy with some slight modification to a mantle i saw in an archetural molding catalogue. Since that time, I have accumulated pictures of about 100 different designs by just thumbing through publications such as Archetectural Design. I have not even thought about another way. A customer can go through my collection and pick one and it can be modified to suit.
In Fine Woodworking #184 is an article about how to build a fireplace mantle you may find interesting reading since you are focused in that area at the moment. Notice the low saw horses the author is using. Mine are about 6" higher because my back is a bit fussy.
Good luck
Joby, Sarge, Mufti, Bruce, Cool & et.al.;
All great advice. Thanks. I'll wind up printing this entire thread and keeping it near for reference.
Rennie
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Edited 7/12/2006 8:37 am by Rennie
Rennie-
Try not to fret too much. I have built hundreds of FP surrounds, and I experience stress on each and every one. You're worried because you care, so you are on the right path already.
Break each one down into their simple elements: two legs and the mantel they will hold up. Like a Greek theater or a palazzo in Florence, architecturewill be your guide.
Sean
Sean & Malcolm;
Sound advice - thanks.Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
> architecture will be your guide <
Yes! Old prospector's maxim: you find gold where gold is found.
Look at what other people do, and copy, copy, copy!
I started just this way years ago in the UK. I wasn't smart enough to own up to my limitations, and learned really quickly!
If this is intended to be a business, then the absolutely key thing is to get 'the business' right.
Malcolm
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