Replies

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Jun 05, 2007 06:23pm | #1

   You ought to get some nice clear concise answers...about 50, all different and all good advise.

   If I were looking to buy new chisels, I would look for older Swans, Whites or Witherbys.  But they're pricey now too.  Stanley Everlasts, Stanley 750's (like the new LNs) and 720's (same as the 750's but in paring lengths) are good but are going for insane prices, particularly for matched sets.

   Older Buck chisels are nice and plentiful and make good users.

   I would get a set of socket chisels (shorter ones like the 750's) for malletwork, a set of long paring chisels, sockets or tanged, a few firmer chisels in large sizes and a couple oval bolstered mortise chisels (some call these "pigstickers, but don't call them that in front of Adam Cherubini :-))  You probably wont need more than one or two common sizes.

   If you don't care about matched sets, you can get away with a lot less money.  If you are willing to rehab and rehandle old chisels, you can get them cheap. 

   Happy hunting!

   David C.

2. 
   AdamCherubini | Jun 05, 2007 07:23pm | #2

   Put this advice in the "if i knew then what I know now" category.*

   Look for long bladed, tanged, mortise chisels, with or without handles in sizes 1/4" and 5/32".  Look to pay about $10 each or less.

   Forget the brand names.  Look for tanged firmers with long (3-5") thin blades.  Buy as many as you can bottom feed around 1/2" wide.  You want as many chisels as possible- preferably every 1/16" from 3/16- 5/8".  Pick up 2 larger firmers with similarly thin blades in the 1" width range.  When I say thin look for a tool that is less than 1/8" thick at the top of the cannel.

   Leave the shiny and the long paring chisels for someone else.  I'd avoid any chisels that look really clean.  Avoid sets and by all means avoid the heavy witherby's, swan's, and other thick bladed chisels that collectors talk about. 

   Though you didn't mention it, I recommend buying small center bits and shells.  These are very helpful tools and very hard to find.  The center bits are available on ebay, but they are next to impossible to judge without handling them.  Make sure the lip has not been filed down and that the center spur (what's it called again) meets the lip without evidence of someone filing it.  (if you file that, the bit will have trouble cutting the center of the hole- that's a problem).

   Lastly, try to find a small pair of hand forged dividers and a few shell gimlets.

   *I'm pre-supposing an interest in cabinetry, and suggesting that it may not be a good idea to do as I would do now (i.e. if I had it to do all over again).  It may be better for you to buy less useful tools and learn on your own.  The tools I've suggested are among the most useful to me and also the hardest to replace. 

   Adam

   P.S. I like the notion that I can work wood without "silver bullet" tools.  I like the notion of my skill conquering consumerism.  And i recommend that approach.  But alas it is an illusion in my case.  My shop is chock filled with "silver bullet" tools.  Choose your tools wisely.  As my kendo teacher often said; "Sometimes the simplest things are most important".

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Jun 05, 2007 10:33pm | #5

   It does matter what you intend to do with them.  If like Adam one is making reproduction 18th century furniture, using tools and techniques similar to those of the period makes sense.

   Now to derail the thread a bit...

   I'm interested Adam, in why you think it necessary to have so many widths.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but to learn.  The mid 19th century Joiners chest I bought last year (we've talked about it before) has exactly what you describe.  A dozen or more light(ish) "firmer" chisels (by firmer I mean without bevelled edges) in widths from 1/8th inch to 2-inches all with very thin sectioned blades with low angle grinds and rounded where the bevel meets the top. 

   The Seaton chest too has quite a number of chisels at 16th-inch increments (I suppose).  What do you think is the reason for so many widths?

   Certainly you could get by with far less.

   David C

1. 
   AdamCherubini | Jun 05, 2007 11:45pm | #6

    

   It does matter what you intend to do with them.  If like Adam one is making reproduction 18th century furniture, using tools and techniques similar to those of the period makes sense.

   But I'm not assuming that.  I just think if you are going to buy old chisels, you should buy chisels that will give you the choice.  The chisels I described- all the tools I described, with the possible exception of the mortisers, are no longer available.

   I "slave" from my chisels.  I set dt spacing to specific chisels for example.  And 1/2" in specific is a good size.  A wider chisel is more difficult to push into hard wood.  And this size is a reasonable strength for a piece of wood in cabinetry. 

   If you want little london pattern dt's in 3/4" stock, you need a 7/16" chisel or thereabouts.  If its a half blind and the pins are short,  1/4" might be too small and 3/8" might be too big.  So you might need a 5/16".

   Having more chisels also saves wear and tear.  My goal is always to make it through an entire job without stopping to resharpen.

   I find chisels can do a lot of jobs faster than a hand saw.  I use chisels frequently.  I guess i wouldn't if I had a router. 

   I can't say if this is why early craftsmen had so many chisels.  But it does sorta make sense when you think about the jobs they were doing, the sharpening stones they had, etc.

   Adam

    

1. 
   lwilliams | Jun 06, 2007 04:29am | #9

   "...My goal is always to make it through an entire job without stopping to resharpen...."

   Which is exactly why you should have been asked how you sharpen. It doesn't matter what kind of chisels you have if sharpening is a barrier to woodworking. A big tool collectors' meeting is an excellent place to find a bargain on an old translucent hard Arkansas stone in good conditon and, maybe, a hand-cranked grinder. If you're new to the organization find a friendly face and ask. You'll be amazed at how helpful most MWTCA members will be.

   I would avoid other sharpening stones, the only other stone you'll need is a medium India and a coarse diamond stone. The medium India is relatively inexpensive and I doubt you'll find a coarse diamond stone in good shape at a tool meet. Don't fall for honing guides old or new. They can only possibly help with your easiest sharpening and tend to cause people to focus on the bevel which is the least important of the two faces you need to hone. I wouldn't suggest a diamond stone for carbon steel tools but it'll be a big help in keeping your other two stones well maintained.

1. 
   runcina | Jun 06, 2007 05:33am | #10

   I can already sharpen very well, so that is not an issue for me. I lack a grinder, but hope to acquire one soon. what sizes of paring chisels are most useful?

2. 
   AdamCherubini | Jun 06, 2007 02:32pm | #12

   I'm recommending skipping the tools folks call paring chisels. In the 18th c Seaton chest, the paring chisels were virtually indistinguishable from the firmers (in shape, in metallurgy, and in number).My advice would be to reserve the thinnest firmers you can find for paring chisels. I prefer 3/8" 5/8", 7/8" and 1-1/2" or so. That is, if you can find that many chisels. Otherwise, you can do as I do and use your firmers as paring chisels (which doesn't necessarily mean double duty- I use my larger chisels to pare most often and I have very little need to chop with them). I don't prefer those really long bladed chisels. They sometimes have really thick blades to support their long length. Carpenters or pattern-makers may have needed these tools. In my experience, cabinetmakers do not.Adam

3. 
   lwilliams | Jun 06, 2007 06:09pm | #15

   What sizes? This gave me a little pause, so I went to the shop and took a picture of my two most frequently used chisels. While they're not the most frequently used in what I do now, they were back when I made my living at architectural woodworking and cabinet work.

   The one in front is a 1 1/2 inch paring chisel and I don't have a clue who made it. The steel is good and the handle isn't my favorite. What's unique about this chisel is the handle is offset about 5º. This gives the handle clearance and allows the back to lay flat on the surface. It gives the access of a cranked neck chisel with the control of a normal chisel. I'm sure it was made this way but I don't know what it's called.

   The other chisel is a butt-ugly 13/16" chisel by Merril & Wilder. It looks heavy and clumsy but is actually pretty well balanced and the steel is amazing in it's ability to hold an acute edge without being brittle. Merril & Wilder isn't a name that attracts collectors so I probably bought it for a dollar or two. I did have to make a new handle for it.

   View Image

   There is a danger of going to a tool meet with specific tools in mind. I would advise a broader focus. Look for things you know fit your method of work and you'll find useful. I've walked past tools I would now love to have only to find them sold when I went back.

   Enjoy your time at the meet and don't overlook the books and old catalogs you'll see. Knowledge is valuable and useful. There are some good books about tools and woodworking out there and many of them are out of print. Take time to talk to people, you'll have access to some of the most knowledgeable around. Knowledge can be the best thing you can get at a tool meet and a lot of it will be free.

4. 
   Patto | Jun 06, 2007 06:06am | #11

   Hi Larry,

   Why not a diamond stone for carbon steels? I have one diamond plate and use it pretty much all the time except for gouges and am curious as to your reason.

   PS. do you happen to know where I might get hols of one of those name stamps you see on the end grain of moulding planes, usually as an owners and a makers stamp. The ones I like are thaose that produce a flat field (often with scalloped edges) and raised letters)

   dave

5. 
   derekcohen | Jun 06, 2007 03:35pm | #13

   "...My goal is always to make it through an entire job without stopping to resharpen...."

   I like that Adam! Actually, this does not pose a problem for me as I have a chisel problem more than a plane problem.

   Which is exactly why you should have been asked how you sharpen. It doesn't matter what kind of chisels you have if sharpening is a barrier to woodworking.

   Larry, I would argue that shapening, per se, is not the issue - it is re-sharpening. It is often an easy enough task to put an edge on a blade. It is more relevant that this edge is either maintained or re-honed in an efficient way. Stropping, either on a compound or plain leather, and the use of minimal equipment as it needs to be tucked away and only pulled out for quick usage as an edge begins to dull. I like hollow grinds on edges, and freehanding on Shaptons - like an Arkansas, these require less maintenance and are fairly clean. I have a 10" DMT coarse diamond stone to flatten.

   What chisels would I look out for?

   My preference is for shorter paring-type chisels, especially tanged types as these are lighter and have a more delicate feel than most socketed chisels. Bergs would top my list. I prefer pushing a chisel to the use of a mallet, so light is my priority. I also do not like very wide chisels. 1 1/4" is wide enough for me.

   Of the socketed type, the Witherbys I have would really satisfy most demanding users for balance and edge holding whether pushed or hit. I also like the balance of Stanley #750s.

   Witherbys:

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   Mortice chisels? I can only recommend one type, oval bolstered types (aka "pigstickers"). The combination of depth of blade and a directional handle make these the easiest to use.

   View Image

   I did restore and re-handle some Ibbottsons. These were terrific chisels but the round handles were not as controllable as those of the OBMC:

   View Image

   Happy hunting!

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

6. 
   DCarr10760 | Jun 06, 2007 05:05pm | #14

   So at least I was right about the differing opinions.

   I guess I am different, because I pick up the biggest, heaviest chisel I can find that will fit a given task.  The mass makes it easier for me to control.  It's the same with shoulder planes, I have the big LN and the Clifton 410 and I never use the small one.  Even on small tenons shoulders.

   Long paring chisels with bevels can be thicker because the bevels allow the tool to be thinner where it counts,  IMO.  I particularly like the added mass when paring

   So my advice is buy ALL of the chisels, try ALL of them and sell off the ones you don't like!

   David C.

    

    

3. 
   joinerswork | Jun 05, 2007 08:06pm | #3

   Runcina,

   In addition to the others' , I'll add Butcher, CEJennings, Pexto, Pineknot (no relation),  Cam.  I have a pair of heavy, shiny, firmers marked I think (it's a faint stamp)  Winsted Tool Co on one side, and USN on the other.  Real good metal in them.  I have one chisel marked Douglas Mfg that is a disappointment, as it is very soft.  Several of my chisels I like the best, are not marked at all.  Unlike Adam, I wouldn't let a tool's good condition put you off, if the price is right.  Some of my nicest chisels are in good shape, and were when I got them!

   Groups like MWTCA, or EAIA are good places to acquire working tools, as a collector will often buy a box lot of mixed tools at an auction to get the one item, or maker's mark, he wants.  Then he's looking to unload the rest at a reasonable price, so as to fund his next purchase of the particular widget he collects.

   Good luck,

   Ray

4. 
   JeffHeath | Jun 05, 2007 10:05pm | #4

   Some great advice here from 3 guys who know chisels.  The only thing I'd add, since I didn't read it above (maybe I missed it) is to stay away from chisels with deep rust pitting near the cutting edge.  You'll never get the back flat near the cutting edge if it's rippled with pits.  It turns the chisel into a serated steak knife, and not much use working wood.

   Jeff

   I wouldn't run from the shiny one's, either, as long as you don't have to pay a premium for them.  I got lucky with some Swan's a while back, and they're as good as any of high dollar chisels sold today.

5. 
   BruceS | Jun 06, 2007 02:52am | #7

   I have a mixed bag of chisels, all garage sale and flea market "specials" $2-$15. Buck Bros., 720/740 Stanleys, Riverside, McIntosch Heather, Swans.  Had to rehaft them all to my liking.   My procedure is to pick one up and tap it with a piece of steel.  If it rings and sings and will clean up it's mine.   If it goes thunk like hitting lead, back it goes unless I need a new nail digger outer ;-)

   Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 06, 2007 03:17am | #8

   C'mon you guys, you're holding back here. 

   I'm a newbie when it comes to chisels and woudld like more.  I bought some Marples, individually as I needed them and the have serverd me well, albeit I'm new to chisels and have just recently started down the slippery slope with planes.

   I'm only up to my 74th hand cut dovetail and have 6,132 more to get good at it.

   Regards,

    Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!