Replies

1. 
   sschefer | Apr 15, 2002 08:00pm | #1

   q- Seems like one of your goals should be able to stop it if it begins to go wrong on you. Are you anywhere near the ocean ? If so, a gallon of Sea Water is a heck of lot cheaper. It will take a little longer but you can speed it up with Ultra Violet lite. If you're not near the Ocean, I think you can buy the salts and phosphores at a Pet store that deals in salt water fish.

   Anyhow, Put the salt water in a plastic spray bottle and flood the piece. Varying the distance of the light from the piece will help you control how fast the oxidation process takes place. This is a much slower process than what you are used to and must be repeated several times but it like it because of the control I have.

   If you're not inclined to go this route then I might suggest finding a way to dilute the mixture you are using as a method of retarding it. This might give you a little more control over things.

   Of course, with salt water, brass is still going to turn green and iron will turn black so heed that wise warning.

   Hope this makes some sort of sense.

   Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   StanleyNiemiec | Apr 19, 2002 08:03am | #12

   You have thoroughly intrigued me.  I am trying to fathom what the reaction might be between the wood components and the salts of sea water in the presence of UV radiation.  I don't even know where to begin. 

   Does this work on all woods or only certain ones with specific extractive contents?

   Can I use a sea salt solution rather than either making a trip to the coast or the aquarium store?

   I would think that the salt would either create problems during finishing or at some time might bleed through the finish. 

   Absolutely amazing  --  where did you find out about this?????

1. 
   sschefer | Apr 19, 2002 08:11pm | #14

   I watched it happen naturally while spending a summer at the beach. I thought I would try to expidite the process using a UV sun lamp. I tried to use basic Sea Salt but it has been refined too far to be effective. Ocean Salt Water has many other things in it besides salt. I'm not a Biologist so I don't know all of the things it contains. Certainly there is plant and animal life in it along with a variety of minerals in addition to salt.

   As for finishing it afterwards, I just cleaned up the residue with soap and fresh water and let it dry. Prior to applying the finish, I blow out the pores with compressed air. That seems to work O.K. for me. Most certainly you'll want to test the process before trying it on a real project.

   Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   StanleyNiemiec | Apr 19, 2002 08:32pm | #15

   I wondered if it wasn't the fish piss that was causing it!!

   All this ADDs up to me as genius; if we could only get organized, we could rule the whirled.

1. 
   sschefer | Apr 19, 2002 08:35pm | #16

   Might very well be the fish or maybe it was the swimming area I took the water from, no telling what might have been in there.... LOL....Steve - in Northern California

2. 
   shoffman13 | Apr 15, 2002 10:57pm | #2

   I've seen this stuff in the catalog, wanted to try it but haven't yet.

   I'm not sure what question you're asking tho.

   Your problem was because of the iron filings from the steel wool, had nothing to do with your solution application method. You would have had the same problem if you had stained with water based analyne dye (rust/oxidation).

   The open pores of oak will catch more of the wool shreds and magnify the problem more than a closed-pore wood. I suppose if steel wool is suspected, rigorous sanding and vacuming might get most of it, but I doubt you'd ever get 100%. For these reason I never use steel wool on raw wood, only when rubbing out the finish coats, where it won't cause a problem (EXCEPT for water-based finishes...).

   Steve Hoffman

   1999 Cherry/Ivory Roadstar

   SCRC #241005

   ISRA # pending forever

1. 
   alexlisa | Apr 16, 2002 03:56am | #3

   My finishing disaster started with a lack of instructions, which were omitted in the shipment of the product. I called the supplier afterward, who said that only all-plastic fitting spray devices (do they exist?) should be used when applying the two parts, as the oxidizer could react with steel, aluminum, etc. As for steel wool, I've learned my lesson. I use 3M pads instead, espescially on oak. At the time I bought this stuff, the manufacturer didn't have a lot of advice on how to use it, other than to recommend spray application, and lots of test scraps. I'm hoping to find someone who has actually used this stuff sucessfully, and can offer some advice on best methods. Short of that, I'll experiment. I thought maybe one of the small disposable Precor sprayers, made of glass and plastic, would be worth a try. Has anybody out there used this? I wouldn't bother, except the few good sample scraps I produced were exactly the color and depth I've been trying to get, with mixed success, with aniline dye.

1. 
   jonweis59923 | Apr 17, 2002 01:01am | #4

   Q-sawn....

   I have used the "Old Growth" on both pine and cedar and got terrific results!  A soft natural patina of grey/brown color.  I brushed mine on but I suppose any "windex" style spray bottle would work just fine as well.  Let it dry for about 30 min. then applied the fixer the same way.  Not having used their "Oak formula" I can't speak to it's results but I would guess that trying a test piece first to get the amount of color your looking for and then doing the project using that same way.  They state on the bottle that the "A" solution can be diluted with distilled water and perhaps a little experimenting that way would give you some different hue's to choose from.  Worth a try...

   Jon

   "Knot's to you"

   http://www.wood-workers.com/~jonweis

1. 
   alexlisa | Apr 17, 2002 02:53am | #5

   jonweis,

   Is this stuff still available through catalog sales? Woodworker's Supply no longer carries it. Where did you get it?

1. 
   jonweis59923 | Apr 17, 2002 06:07pm | #6

   Q-sawn...

   Sorry, I got mine from WWsupply about a year ago.  The company does have a web site but I can't find it right now.  Might try running a web search using Old Growth or the mfr's name.  That's how I found it back when I was trying to learn more about the product when I first heard about it.  Sorry I can't be of more help.

   P.S. just found the site they have on the bottle but it doesn't work ! http://www.olgrowth.com.  but they do have a toll free # at 1-888-301-9663 and maybe they can give you a distributer or retail outlet.

   Jon

   "Knot's to you"

   http://www.wood-workers.com/~jonweis

2. 
   shoffman13 | Apr 17, 2002 07:12pm | #7

   I have been thinking about trying this stuff on cherry for a couple years now. Based on these discussions, I called WWS of NM yesterday and added it to an order I had pending already. Not sure where you heard/saw they weren't carrying it anymore, but I had no problem adding it to my order yesterday and it showed as in stock...

   btw - it's on page 140 of the last catalog I had from them...Steve Hoffman

   1999 Cherry/Ivory Roadstar

   SCRC #241005

   ISRA # pending forever

3. 
   jonweis59923 | Apr 18, 2002 12:08am | #8

   Steve...

   Well I thought I had seen it in the last WWsupply catalog but then just figured that maybe they had discontinued it for some reason.  Hey it's worth a shot! I was rteally surprised at the ease of application and as with anything new a few test runs on similar material will give you an idea of how it works.  As I said in an earlier post I was really impressed with the results on pine.  I just bought the small 6 or 8 oz. "kit" to try it out on the pine before I went for a larger amount as it is a little pricy.

   Jon

   "Knot's to you"

   http://www.wood-workers.com/~jonweis

4. 
   tsaw123 | Apr 19, 2002 02:38pm | #13

   current issue of american woodworker has an article about this product used on cherry. I think it will cause the common problem of blotching.

3. 
   quatersawn | Apr 18, 2002 12:17am | #9

   I've used the stuff on quatered white oak a few times. Brushed it on. I've never diluted it because I've wanted the darker look. However, my first experience with it was a bit unhappy. The first coat must be applied COMPLETELY to the ENTIRE surface to be colored, because once you put the second coat of solution on, and you've missed a spot, it leaves a lighter area that you can't go back and repeat the first coat on. Once the first coat, or solution A is dryed, it's hard to tell if you covered it completley or not. I like the spray idea. I ended up using a dark oak stain by Mc Closkey, and then an amber collered shellac by Bulls eye. It gives a gorgeous color and the amber shellac brings out the golds and adds a touch of red to it. I've done my whole house this way. It was easier than trying to two part my way through stairs, bars, mouldings etc.

1. 
   alexlisa | Apr 18, 2002 07:38pm | #10

   Mark,

   Thanks for the return post. Is the Mcluskey stain you mention an aniline dye or surface stain? I tried alcohol base aniline dye on white oak. I found it hard to avoid lap marks and blotches since it dries so fast when applying by brush. I've since heard that a retarder should be added to slow down drying time witj alcohol soluable dyes. The amber shellac sounds good too. Can you put a more durable finish over it? Polyurethane varnish? I like the Watco wipe on varnish since it leaves no brush marks.

1. 
   quatersawn | Apr 18, 2002 08:58pm | #11

   This stain is called "dark Oak" and it is a traditional heavy oil based stain. It has some tung oil in it as well, so it is pretty duarable right out of the can. I brush it on, let it stand a few minutes, then work it in with two rags, one to smoooth it out, the other to follow along and wipe up the excess. Don't be stingy either. When one gets soaked I just rotate in a new rag. The name on the can is Mc Closkey's tung seal stain. They make a complete line of stuff. Where do you live? I live in California, so they have to mix VOC compliant stains for us. You might find it even better where you are. The stuff takes about a day to completley dry and de-gas, but I've shellaced it in as little as a few hours, depending on temperatures, but I wouldn't recommend it. As for the shellac, I've never put anything over it. The nice thing about shellac is it is natural, very durable, can be sprayed, brushed, leaves no brush marks, dries very quick for re-coat. It is usually a glossy finish, but I rub it down lightly with some 3m pads and wax, and wholy moly, satin smooth. Like I said, my whole house is quartered and rift white oak, so I've done thousands of feet of staining and shellacing, and this method produces that old antique oak look I think you are trying to find. The shellac is great for cabinets, mouldings etc, but if you've got a tabletop or something exposed and used a lot, maybe a poly might be better. However, the shellac is real easy to fix if it gets scratched. I love 1/4 sawn, and white oak in general, and this finish is turn of the century color and feel. Not quite Mission, which has a bit more red in it, but maybe a shade different.  Let me know if I can help out anymore. I can send some pics if it helps.