Since my job was cut I’ve been trying to work my way into building furniture full time. I’ve made the mistake, however, of trying to get some badly needed remodeling/restoration work done on the house and it’s taking away most of my shop time.
The house was built in 1887, right at the height of the timber boom in these parts. Since it was originally constructed, the following major changes have been made:
- Entire house turned so front now faces east rather than north. (Corner lot.)
- Small house from three blocks away moved and added to west end of house.
- Plumbing and central heat added.
- Replaced gas lights with electricity (60 amp. service.)
- Covered siding with asphalt shingles. (At least they weren’t asbestos!)
- Rebuilt about 1/2 of roof after fire.
- Lowered first floor ceilings to hide badly cracked/sagging originals (Still 9.5′ high.)
- Added rear stair case.
These were all made by the original owners before 1980. Since then, it’s been a full time job to correct all the mistakes made in the past (chopped out floor joists, wall studs, etc.) and try to bring things such as wiring, heat, plumbing up to date while still maintaining the original appearance of the place.
In the past five years I’ve had all the plaster redone in the downstairs, totally gutted and rebuilt the bathroom and kitchen, repointed the entire stone foundation and completely rebuilt about 20% of it, poured an new basement floor, built a new garage, poured new sidewalks, rebuilt the porches, insulated, re-sided, replaced floor joists on above mentioned “addition” (originals were 2x4s !) replaced the roof (entire structure including rafters) installed central air, new windows and storm doors, sanded and refinished the hardwood floors and trim, and now I’ve got a bedroom completely gutted with three more to go.
I’m beginning to wonder if it will ever end and if it would have been easier to built from scratch. Actually, I KNOW it’s easier to build new. (Victorian charm became a meaningless phrase quite a few years ago!) The one benefit that stands out is taxes. In Michigan houses over 100 years old are taxed only by the square foot, so I don’t get penalized every time one improves things. I’m tired.
Jeff
Replies
Jeffy,
what's your point? Victorian's have no cachet there, or it this just a plain ol' whine? If the latter, save it for the Vikings.
If the former, there's always a market for the well done. Do the work, find the buyer who's (in the words of Will-the-Sage-Smith) Just "Jiggy
Wid it", and let bidnez be bidnez.
Or... you could have started from scratch.
Demolition. Permit. Construction. Permit. Foundation. Permit.
Plumbing & New line from Main. Permit. Electrical. Permit.
No-show subcontractors... Permit. Wife in Divorce Court... Permit.
Construction Loan. Permit. Foreclosure. Permit.
Got it?
Get over it.
-GWC
Well, excuse me.
Jeff,
George W was a bit harsh there.
But what WAS your point? Are you bragging or complaining?
If complaining, well as George says, get over it.
If bragging, here's a pat on the back and an "Atta boy" commendation. I'd be tired, too. That's a lot of remodeling. It's remarkable that you've kept track of all the work. Bet you've left something out. It's amazing how we get driven to do these things isn't it? I hope the place is the way you want it to be when you get done. (Will you ever be done?)
Rich
Niether. Really wondering if it's worth it, and if it isn't easier and cheaper to build from scratch.
Jeff
Jeff K wrote: Really wondering if it's worth it, and if it isn't easier and cheaper to build from scratch.
Of course it is. Didn't you know that before you started? Well, you know it now.--
Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon
On the Redwood Highway
Well, for me, there was the one little problem of where i was going to sleep until such time as the house-from-scratch was finished. So i bought my derelict Victorian and restored it as money and know-how came my way while continuing to enjoy indoor plumbing, as is my wont.
Splintie,
After having grown up with outdoor plumbing, I've come to appreciate the modern version (especially when it's -20F.) However, don't forget that the little house develops character: trudging through the snow; no wasting time on the throne. no waste of water, etc. It also leads to family harmony - I don't recall any arguments about whose turn it was next. I'd say that it represents a real Yankee no nonsense attitude and should be once again be part of the American landscape. (One nice thing about the internet is the ability it gives one to communicate anything while maintaining a straight face.)
Jeff
January 5th and it's 30 below;Sitting on this seat is like sitting in the snow.
You wuss! try it in Oz where you first have to de-snake the dunny, then check for red-back spiders under the seat. Snow and 20 below would be heaven!
I appreciated your post, Jeff. The only reservation I'd have with it is that it might have been more appropriate in the 'Cafe' where we go to unwind, so to speak. Sorta like when you sit down with fellow worker bees and just start up a chat session.
I'm about to embark on a similar although not nearly as ambitious project myself. I'm glad to hear that you, too, know and understand the virtues of the backyard privy - I didn't live in a house with indoor plumbing until I was a freshman in hi-school when my family moved from Kansas to the Seattle area. I guess that might put us somewhere in the same generation; meaning that if you can do it, then I'm confident I can, too.
So you see, your little dissertation served as someting of a pep talk for me!!
Thanks!!!
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis,
I've read some of the posts in the cafe, and found them a bit strange. Still not sure what it's supposed to be.
Jeff
Jeff -
On all discussion boards, message boards, special interest chat groups (Knots is such an animal) there are chat 'rooms', discussion subgroups, etc., called by a variety of names. This is a carry over from the old days of BBS Bulliten Board Service) on line communication. I ran a CAD BBS for some years in the Professional CAD and Graphics network (PCGNet). The main focus of the board (and network) was CAD, computer rendering, animation, and the like. We had forums for each such topic.
Thus if your primary interest is in finishing, you'd migrate to the finishing discussion first. Or perhaps you're keenly interested in tools - you'd pay more attention to the Tools for Woodworking topic perhaps.
But there's also time for informal chat which may or may not have anything to do with the particular focus of the message board. That's the point of the Woodworker's Cafe.
Imagine taking a break from the shop to walk down to the corner pub to lift a pint (or cup) with who soever you might run into. The discussion doesn't have to do with anything in particular, you just want to unwind and perhaps talk about the fantastic fall colors, get to know some of the other participants (what's your *real* job) and so on and so forth.
By & large, the obvious point of coming to the Knots message board is to discuss woodworking, furniture making, finishing, tools of the trade and so forth. But in the few short weeks I've been hanging around here, I feel I've gotten to know a few of the people a little better by vsiting them in "the Cafe".
Now .... if we could just talk the SysOp (Systems Operator) into initiating a turning chat room I'd have someplace to futher antagonize everyone!! (grin)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis: You know what would be really really Wild here,a live chat room where we could all get together with our friends and just throw the Bull or talk about Woodworking<G>..ya that would be sooo cool.. Guess Im dreamin again.. oh well..
ToolDoc
Doc -
I really enjoy on line communication but I'm not too keen on 'live' chat stuff. I type extremely fast for someone who's never taken typing but if you factor in the editing afterward, all bets are off (hahaha)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
After having grown up with outdoor plumbing...
Until i was 14 and we moved to "town" (pop. 150), we had a sort of indoor/outdoor toilet thing going. Our log cabin--built in the Depression by a gold prospector and her bachelor son--was built partly over a creek, on stilts. We had a perch indoors with a drain that ran to the creek that worked quite well in "loo" of a septic system until the feds caught on--we were on unpatented mining claims on USFS land. It didn't hurt the creek a bit since it was already kaput from mining wastes.
Occasionally if we had a -20* spell for a bit the line would freeze, meaning we had to cross the creek to the outhouse. The females in the house complained bitterly so we were rewarded with a 5-gallon bucket. We carried on grumbling until we got the toilet seat upgrade.
Aaaah, the outdoor dunny. Great gizmos really. All kinds of inventiveness on the part of the original builder can be seen. There is a book here dedicated soley to this. Some pretty amazing pics.
The best i saw was built over a massive hollow Totara stump. Very cosy and a great veiw.
The worst was over a pit that flooded, and had a roof only. The nail poking up from the front bar would have made life interesting for anyone brave enough to use it.
Wood Hoon
Jeff--
Just had to let you know that I appreciated your post--It came at a time when we are just beginning our second restoration project--An 1881 "Italianate" home. Currently, the home is sitting on steel I-beams while we dig and pour a new foundation...However, this is just the beginning for us...The home was "modernized" in the 1970's--many of the victorian details were destroyed and the whole home was stuccoed (This over clear redwood siding!). Aluminum windows replace old wooden ones. Crappy plumbing and gas lines look like a spaghetti factory in the crawl space. Yesterday I learned (despite a clear inspection prior to purchasing two years ago) that we have powder-post beetles and termites (likely due to the crappy stucco job that went straight to the earth). That little surprise alone will cost an additional $10K.
Old homes are my bane...I can't imagine living in a track home, but I sometimes wonder if I will have any time left to live after I am done with it!
Keep the chin up and keep plugging away!
PNut.
Thanks. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Fortunately, we don't have termites up in these parts, but we do have carpenter's ants which will completely consume any wet wood. Some friends of mine had steel siding on their house, and a moisture problem. The sheeting and original siding were pine - their favorite -so little goomers had a feast.
I haven't yet tried to restore any of the exterior details. Problem is keeping paint on them. I've seen a lot of professional restorations that must have cost a fortune and almost all of them are peeling after a few years. Think I'll wait until they come out with some more durable paints or materials. Good luck!
Jeff
Jeff--
One of the ways to help prevent peeling paint problems (if you are not already doing it) is to back prime all wood possible--this helps to prevent moisture from pushing trough the exposed wood an causing the paint to peel...hope this helps....
Perhaps it's due to the extremes in weather, but paint really doesn't do very well around here. One finds more and more folks turning to vinyl siding. Certainly not authentic, but it does look better than peeling paint.
Jeff
But new houses are just so, vanilla. Besides, you'd save yourself from fun projects like this while the wife was away.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E
If URL doesn't work, its "Fir floors, maybe" in the gallery section of breaktime.
My goal is to get a 1910 solid old growth fir house with 2000 infrastructure. My front porch roof is supported by 20 ft long 6x10 beams. Princess asked if we could put up a swinging bench, and I said "Hell, we could pull the truck engine on these puppies." I went to visit a friend in his new house, and it just felt so cold and aseptic. It felt more assembled than built, if that makes any sense. Sure it takes up a number of weekends, but I can only work at my job so much, and I look upon this as another way of making money that is more enjoyable. Besides, from what I hear, most new houses require a bunch of work as well. The energy guy from the gas company said the first thing I should do is replace all the windows. HEY, if I wanted new windows, I would have bought a new house. They aren't letting me attach a picture, but I was going to show a dining room one with 5 ft high fir wainscotting, 9 ft ceilings, leaded glass windows, a built in hutch with leaded glass windows, a bench seat extension, etc. All the good stuff you'd never see in a new house because "code" has eliminated all the things that make houses unique and interesting.
wood wrote: They aren't letting me attach a picture, but I was going to show a dining room one with 5 ft high fir wainscotting, 9 ft ceilings, leaded glass windows, a built in hutch with leaded glass windows, a bench seat extension, etc. All the good stuff you'd never see in a new house because "code" has eliminated all the things that make houses unique and interesting.
----------------------
I couldn't agree with you more, Wood. Just try to build an authentic Arts & Crafts house these days. They'd laugh you right out of City Hall. But I think I'd try it anyway, after the inspectors had gone.
Who's to know?
--
Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon
On the Redwood Highway
Lee and Wood,
You fellows should get away from the left coast and live someplace where you still have property rights! (Either that or start electing people who have at least read the constitution.) When I built my garage the building inspector started with all his babble and I told him to mind his own business. What I was building was far more structurally sound than his codes required and so long as I wasn't building too close to property lines etc, it was none of his damned business and I'd put doors and windows and sidewalks wherever I wanted them. One must bear in mind that a building inspector is just another petty bureaucrat that must, like all members of that parasitic species, be put in his place on a regular basis.
(I knew a chap who did a little [3,000 sq ft] project with no permit at all. When the inspector came and started raising hell he picked him up and threw him in a drainage ditch. Told him not to return without a warrant. Cost him a few bucks, but he claims it was worth it.]
Jeff
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled