Replies

1. 
   RalphBarker | May 20, 2012 09:22am | #1

   Old vs. New

   New out performs finely tined old? Probably not. But those bronze LN #4s sure are "purdy".  ;-)

2. 
   wericha | May 20, 2012 11:37am | #2

   Even new will have to be tuned, so it's hard to say if they will be any better.

   That being said, upgrade is always good.  One can never have too many tools!!

3. 
   roc | May 20, 2012 01:33pm | #3

   In at least one case it is worth going with a new plane.

   This plane is head and shoulders above the old version or what one could do to an old bevel up to improve it.  A phenomenally great plane for the money.

   http://www.veritastools.com/Products/Page.aspx?p=93

   Now . . . the question is do you NEED a plane like this one ?  Really only if you work tear out prone wood or extremely hard wood that causes a bevel down blade to bend and dive down into the work.

   Or if you like fine tools and fine hand planes.

   I plead guilty to all three charges.

   PS:   If you have large projects made from very hard wood, because it is easier to change blades on a bevel up, don't fool around, get a stack of blades to go with the plane.

   
1. 
   derosa | May 20, 2012 02:18pm | #4

   It looks like the bevel up has an advantage.

1. 
   roc | May 20, 2012 07:31pm | #5

   I don't want to start WWIII (WOOD War three )

   So I will say bevel ups are not good for every type of situation and you may need to use one in spite of its limitations.

   An old bevel up jack could do similar work or a very steeply pitched bevel down.

   It is just that this particular bevel up is more fun to use than an older bevel up jack.

   There . . . I hope that will keep the covers over the gun turrets ( at least long enough for Larry to mail my new finish plane to me ).

   :   )

1. 
   derosa | May 21, 2012 01:44pm | #6

   What angle of blade or bevel, do you find works best with quarter sawn oaks?

1. 
   roc | May 21, 2012 09:37pm | #7

   I don't work with oak much but

   I have never had much trouble with tear out with oak.

   I would start with the 25° bevel and you can easily add a steeper micro bevel if necessary.  I wish Lataxe were here; he could tell you.

   That brings up the issue I mentioned earlier.  If you are going to use the shallower angles then you could just go with bevel down planes which will buy you more "clearance" angle on the blade to work under side of the blade.  The advantage is the blade will cut a little longer when it starts to get dullish and there will be less "burnishing of the wood surface which means finishes and glue will behave better.

   I love bevel ups but that is the whole ball of wax to mull over.

   See Larry . . . I can be taught . . . I can change . . . oh where o' where is my plane ?

   . . . sigh

2. 
   roc | May 25, 2012 12:59am | #10

   Lataxe, Oak, The Angle and Soooo Much More

   http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/hand-tools/best-plane-blade-angle-qtr-sawn?page=1

   Sure used to be lively around here.

   It occured to me Lataxe and the boys are still here ( if we go back in time ) so I searched out something.

   It is a shame the photos seem not to be there any more.

   Any way . . . you asked for info.

4. 
   hammer1 | May 22, 2012 08:40am | #8

   Comparing old planes to new will depend on which particular plane and what specific process you are doing. For smoothing work, particularly difficult species, Lie Neilsen offers some different frogs which changes the angle of the blade. That option isn't available for older smoothing planes. Veritas offers a bevel up smoother, finding and affording an old Bailey bevel up isn't easy. These larger bevel up planes make excellent shooting planes. A bevel up miter plane is another hard to find, expensive older plane. As far as more standard utility type planes, jacks, jointers, block planes, there isn't a lot of difference in actual performance.

   There are some things that an individual may find desirable over older models. The size and fit in your hand can be quite different between an older Stanley and a new Neilsen or Veritas, there can be finer adjustment with less backlash and some models will have a lateral adjustment lever which you don't find on older block planes. That's an important feature for me, sure beats prying the blade with a screw driver. I don't think you will find any modern makers offering compass planes or molding planes outside of hollows and rounds, antiques are the only way to go with these. Veritas makes a router plane with better adjustment than an old Stanley. I think Nielsen is the only one making a bench rabbet plane like a #10. When it comes to spoke shaves, plow planes, stringing routers, rebate planes and other specialty planes, you may be limited to one modern manufacturer if any.

   With infill smoothers, you are looking at higher expense either way, from a $10,000 Holtey to offerings from a number of boutique type makers. Older ones still comand high prices when you can find them but so do the modern offerings which are hand crafted one at a time. For a lot of planes it's not so much old vs new, it's more a matter of what you want, availability and what you are willing to pay.

5. 
   ezek1el | May 24, 2012 12:16pm | #9

   old vs new

   My opinion on that is that if you have a tite budget but already own old hand planes that are in good shape, functional and you plan on using them a lot it is worth it to put I little bit of money on the plane irons and chip breakers of your hand planes.  But like for my self I didnt have any hand plane when I started woodworking 2 years ago, and buying a good baley or  bedrock was just as expensive as buying a new hand plane so I went with the Veritas bevel up Hand planes and im glad that i did. If you have good budget think that if you are gonna use hand planes a lot and abuse them, buying a good quality hand plane like what Veritas and lie Nielson offer, you are just gonna enjoy the bit more money you spent on something that is gonna give you good results and lasts decades.