Replies

1. 
   ToolDoc | Mar 15, 2003 07:10am | #1

   WoodWolf : IM glad you posted this Queston as Im in the market for a new saw myself and I am tossing around which saw to buy  I looked at the Grizzly & Unisaw, either left or right tilt?? big diffrence in prices between the two..I will be following this post to see what the rest of the Knot Heads here have to say..

   Take Care..      ToolDoc

2. 
   mrles | Mar 15, 2003 07:40am | #2

   This can of worms gets opened quite frequently. I have a Unisaw with a Unifence and I couldn't be more pleased. I have no complaints at all. I have never used nor owned a PM but I can't imagine anything being any better. Delta has always been very helpful and cooperative with any problems I have had with any of their products. I have never had to call them with any problems with my Unisaw or the Unifence.

   You probably wouldn't go wrong with either one, I'm just sold on the Unisaw.

   God Bless

   les 

1. 
   john45411 | Mar 15, 2003 07:55am | #3

   no one with a pm 66 has ever wondered what it would be like to own a delta unisaw...ever!!!!!!!!!!!

   jpa

1. 
   SVickerman | Mar 15, 2003 01:35pm | #4

   I worked at a custom furniture shop for about 3 years and I loved the unisaw in our shop. Recently though I decided to strike out on my own and ordered a PM 66. I have not even picked it up from the store yet but all the research I did pointed towards the 66.

   Vick

   Edited 3/15/2003 6:36:43 AM ET by Vick

3. 
   TomFerreira | Mar 15, 2003 01:44pm | #5

   WoodWolf,

   I doubt you will get too many responses to this as we just finished this discussion most recently within the last couple of weeks. Search the archives and you will find plenty on this. There have been some good discussions in the past on it.

   TDF

4. 
   barnbuilder | Mar 15, 2003 02:58pm | #6

   Go with a grizzly 1023.  You will not be disappointed. 

5. 
   KyleZ | Mar 15, 2003 03:27pm | #7

   You may want to add the General 350 to your list of candidates.  From what I understand, they are very comparable with the Powermatics.

6. 
   davearnone | Mar 15, 2003 04:59pm | #8

   WoodWolf, I own an old PM66.  It's built like a tank.  Absolutely runs smooth with no vibration.  Bought it for $1 at a lockheed auction.  It had been lifted by the table wings with fork lift which caused table bolts to snap off from the cabinet.  In its useless condition it, then it went outside to rust.

   After a kilobuck and a bunch of labor it is again an outstanding saw.  That money mostly included high dollar fence and baldor motor. 

   But I do have one complaint.  PM66's (mine included) have significant backlash in the worm gear mechanisms that raise and tilt the blade.  Not a show stopper, but it is real.  The worms also require frequent lubrication.

   dave

7. 
   LeeGrinding1 | Mar 15, 2003 05:42pm | #9

   Responses to a question like yours is always interesting to me.

   The only legitimate opinion about this matter comes from a person who has used them both.

   I'd insist on this before you consider an opinion legitimate.

   Lee

   Lee Grindinger

   Furniture Carver

1. 
   NotChuck | Mar 15, 2003 08:50pm | #10

   Having trouble locating the previous discussion in the archives, can someone link me to it?  I've used the Unisaw a lot, but I'm looking for a new 10" cabinet saw for my shop and people keep telling me that the 66 is the superior tool, but I have no experience with it, can someone enlighten me. ps  I am sold on the left tilt being safer, I looked at the General and it is still right tilt I think.

   SUGARLOAF WOODWORKING

   Architectural Woodworking & Quality Restoration of Older Homes

   "Anything is Possible"

    

   Edited 3/15/2003 1:56:05 PM ET by WoodWolf

1. 
   jc21 | Mar 15, 2003 09:51pm | #11

   General makes a left tilt saw ....  http://www.general.ca/english/frame2.html 

2. 
   forestgirl | Mar 15, 2003 09:58pm | #12

   Try this one:

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=11069.1

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

3. 
   TomFerreira | Mar 16, 2003 03:18am | #15

   Woodwolf,

   FG pointed you on the direction of the previous saw discussion but I wanted to comment on the laeft vs right tilt. There have also been many discussions on this in the past, and I think most people are quick to quote the conventional wisdom without considering personal preference or use.

   The conventional wisdom, just to state it and get it out of the way is that when ripping or crosscutting against the fence with the blade on the left of the fence, right tilt pinches the piece between the fence and the table which could be unsafe. That being said, I find myself working more and more on the right side of the fence unless I'm doing a long ripping operation which requires the outfeed table or use of the fence scale. In this case you need to decide what you like. Do you prefer the finish piece over the blade (left tilt) or under the blade (right tilt)?

   So, consider your uses for the saw and your preferences. They make them both ways for a reason.

   TDF

4. 
   garth | Mar 16, 2003 05:43am | #16

   The General 350 is right tilt, the General 650 is the same saw but left tilt.

   Scott T.

8. 
   Hempstalk | Mar 16, 2003 12:55am | #13

   Woodwolf,

          I've used a new unisaw, an older Rockwell, a Powermatic, and three different General saws.  I prefer the General.  The uni, Rockwell, and Powermatic were in a shop I worked for and I used them for around 5 years.  All the saw's were set up side by side so we would use whatever one was available.  The fences were all Biesemeyer or copies except the new uni saw which had a newer aluminum fence. I've had my own shop for some time now and have two General saws working away.  I have an older General 350 and well the dust collection sucks.  No pun intended.  So I recently purchased a new General.  Great dust collection, a huge door for access to the inside and the option of mounting the mag switch on the left or right side of the saw.

         Now the reasons I've purchased all General tools for my shop is because I'm a Canadian living in BC.  The price is right and the quality is top notch.  The unisaw is also readily available but in my opinion is no comparison to the General.  It seems to be a much lighter built saw on the inside.  The Powermatic seems to be right in par with the General but your guys dollar kill me and the color is downright harsh.  I also preferred the older Rockwell to the new unisaw.

          Now all the saws were subjected to the same abuse and use and the all seem to handle it with little problems.  The use consisted of cutting plywood, MDF, 1 2 & 3" hardwood and dado's at full blade height and width.

         Unless you plan to punish the saw day in and day out I think you can choose any of the above saws that fit nicely into your price range and you'll be very happy with it's performance.  In my opinion some are just built to last a little longer than others.  One last note about the unisaw.  The mag switch has a little dial on the inside that pops the breaker at a certain setting.  When the saw was new it popped the breaker a lot.  By turning the dial up the problem was fixed but I was told by Delta that that would effect the warranty if it broke.  It didn't break but the fact that they made the saw a little wimpy to make it last the warranty didn't sit right with me.  The other saws didn't seem to care what you threw at them they just kept going.  Now that's not to say the saw couldn't take the abuse but it seemed cheesy.

9. 
   nikkiwood | Mar 16, 2003 01:12am | #14

   I owned a unisaw for about 20 years, and thought I would "upgrade" to the Powermatic 66. For years I had heard the 66 was a "better" saw -- e.g. more cast iron parts, more mass, etc.

   Now that I've had the Powermatic for a year, I would honestly say I can't see any difference at all.

   That said, remember I am comparing a unisaw bought 20 some years ago (when it was still Rockwell) with the modern version of the 66.

   It would be worth your while to talk to those who are in a better position to compare the two as they are coming off the line these days. I have a general impression -- but absolutely no facts to back it up -- that the new Deltas are not built to the same standards they were years ago.

10. 
    Andrew | Mar 16, 2003 06:13am | #17

    I've used both an old (about 15-20 years) Unisaw, a really old Rockwell unisaw and I personally own a General 350 which is around 20 years old. I have spent a lot of time on with all three saws, the unisaws in a production environment, and I think that the General is a better saw. Before I bought my saw it had been through a few production shops and it still runs great. The only thing I don't like about it is the dust collection. The General has heavier castings, a heavier gage cabinet, and is more precisely machined than the Delta's. I also think the paint is better, but that' s not really important. I've never used a powermatic, but from what I've seen it's not much different from a General, only more expensive.

    One more point to consider. WMH has destroyed Wilton, a company which used to make nice machines and vises. Now their machines are IMO garbage. WMH also owns Powermatic.

11. 
    twoodward15 | Mar 16, 2003 04:29pm | #18

    By far the ryobi BT3K is the best

1. 
   hmthomas | Mar 16, 2003 05:21pm | #19

   I have the Delta and really like it. My friend has a 20 year old Powermatic that I like alot better, its a real tank. Solid machine.

     Another friend has a brand new Powermatic and I like my Delta better. I don't think its the same quality as the older one.  All are great saws so ......bottom line is that they all do the job just fine. Stick with the big name saws if for nothing more than the resale. 

12. 
    forestgirl | Mar 16, 2003 06:08pm | #20

    I didn't look to see if another Knothead already posted this, but April's Woodworker's Journal has an article by Kelly Mehler, sawyer extrordinaire, wherein he reports his Shop Test opinions on 9 different cabinet saws.  US saws and European saws. Great article, sure to be of help in these "which one" threads.

    forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   jc21 | Mar 16, 2003 11:12pm | #21

   Ditto your comments .....was a great article. Truth is that I'd be happy with any one of these saws, Unisaw, PM66, Jet, General, or even the Grizzly for that matter.  I like the General the best for it's fit and finish and solid construction but having said that the best cabinet saw I've ever used was in a shop I worked at over a decade ago. An old Walker Turner, cutting was effortless. Smooth too, you could balance a penny on edge.

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 16, 2003 11:32pm | #22

   I just skimmed the article last night, but even then learned a few things for sure.  An interesting point made that if some manufacturer would take the strong points of each machine, a dream-saw would be the result.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Robbie | Mar 17, 2003 03:27am | #23

   Forestgirl:

   Embarassed to say I do not subscribe to the Woodworker's Journal.  Is it good?

   What was the bottom line?  Usually the authors recommend their top 1 or 2....  Always room for another opinion.

   BW

1. 
   forestgirl | Mar 17, 2003 07:25pm | #24

   He likes the European saws the best, no big surprise there.  They come in at about $2300 and above.  I highly recommend buying the issue and reading the article, becuase there's good information about cabinet saws in general, and he highlights the pros and cons of each machine.

   PS:  WWers Journal is one of the mags I pick up off the stands when there's something specific I'm interested in, rather than subscribing to it. 

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   Edited 3/17/2003 12:26:34 PM ET by forestgirl

2. 
   Robbie | Mar 18, 2003 01:00am | #25

   FG - Thank you kindly for the information.  I hope to be able to find an issue this afternoon.

   Best regards,

13. 
    PelhamPete | Mar 18, 2003 01:41am | #26

    I almost hate to ask why no one has mentioned the Jet cabinet saw?  I have one and I am perfectly pleased with it.  The fence took a little while to set it up to make it operate optimally, but other than that ...

    -Peter T.

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Mar 27, 2003 11:50pm | #32

   Peter,

   Don't know why, but Jet seems to be out of fashion on this forum.  I've said it before and will repeat again: I believe Jet makes a better saw than Delta, offers it at a better price, and delivers customer support nobody else can rival.

   If anyone would doubt my assessment, just check the reviews at Amazon.  Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever read a bad magazine review of a Jet cabinet saw.

   Jeff

1. 
   PelhamPete | Mar 28, 2003 04:27pm | #33

   Hi Jeff/all,

   Well- this IS a concern; if, as you say, Jet is out of fashion on this forum -- out of fashion, that is, because of something other than their relative/absolute value, quality, customer service issues -- then this is indeed unfortunate.

   When a company delivers a good product (which they appear to at least in their cab saw), at a great price (this is an empirical fact), and they deliver such great customer service (they practically threw another fence-and-rail assembly at me ... no argument, no shipping costs, they didn't ask me to pack-up the other one and send it back, etc.), then we ought to give them the acknowledgement they deserve ...

   I guess that I am still wondering if there aren't some legit complaints/drawbacks about THE SAW (as opposed to their fence/miter gauge) out there.  The rather odd omission of the leading-edge bevel on their table wings seems a rather minor reason to stay away from the saw.

   -Peter T.

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Mar 28, 2003 06:51pm | #34

   Peter,

   Wasn't aware of any complaints on the fence.  Mine came with the XACTA Fence II, which, except for the white paint, appears to be exactly the same as the fence they use on the Powermatic.  The only thing I didn't care for was the cursor which was too high above the measuring scale, but that was easily fixed with a spacer.

   My saw was damaged when moving it into the basement; broke the rear trunion support.  Entirely my fault and I told them so.  They sent a new one via Fed Ex at absolutely no charge.  Turned out to be an interesting experience, since in disassembling and reassembling the machine I got to see how heavy the construction was as well as the machining of the parts.  Impressive.

   The lack of a bevel on the extension wings is a bit odd, but not unique to Jet.  Believe it's there because both wings are the same, i.e. can be used on either side.  I suppose it saves a bit on manufacturing costs.  I've read that folks sometimes use a grinder and a file to add the bevel.

   Jeff

14. 
    tcbaldmtn | Mar 18, 2003 01:49am | #27

    You should check out the General 350 or 650, depending on right or left tilt.

1. 
   NotChuck | Mar 19, 2003 06:55am | #28

   Thanks for all the info everyone,  I did find a local distributor for General and will try to check them out also,  I heard somewhere that General is the only company that still manufactures in North America.SUGARLOAF WOODWORKING

   Architectural Woodworking & Quality Restoration of Older Homes

   "Anything is Possible"

    

1. 
   tbhs1964 | Mar 27, 2003 04:07am | #29

   Not true.  Unisaw and PM are made in the USA.  Delta uses some parts and castings which are machined in Mexico.  PM still has a foundary in Mcminiville, TN.  The saw is then assembled in LaVernge, TN..  I have a PM66.  Solid machine, excellent fit and finish, no vibration nor slop.  I am a weekend warrior and hobbiest woodworker....a bit of overkill for me but the Unisaw looked....er, cheap.  There have been problems with warped tops and electrical switch problems.  I could not be bothered.  Therefore, I bought the PM66.

   No regrets.  Either machine would be fine for me but I'm a anal compulsive and want the best.

1. 
   booch | Mar 27, 2003 11:14pm | #30

   Is that short hand for anal retentive and Obsesive compulsive ?

   ROTFLMAOJack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?

1. 
   pinsntails | Mar 27, 2003 11:34pm | #31

   Unisaw, PM 66, General

   They are all available in left tilt. The oft quoted backlash issue with the PM can be adjusted out. Visiting each of the manufactures websites will answer 80% of your questions.

   Bottom line, the best one is the one you own. Why? Because you own it.