Oldish Iron – 70’s Belsaw Planer questions
I’m going to look at a 12 1/4″ planer that an elderly gent is selling because he’s moving into a retirement community where they tend to frown on 5 h.p. power planes being fired up in your living room.
Haven’t found much on it mainly ‘cuz of the holiday W/E. Belsaw’s still around but no one there till Tuesday and I have to make a deal tomorrow. The top is marked Craftsman Model 360, which jives with Belsaw having made tools for Sears during the 70’s.
Unit is in surprisingly fresh and well cared for condition. Motor is way strong original TECF single phase 220v 5 hp. Plane is single speed chain drive. No undue noises, shakes, rattles or rolls and with properly supported in-feed and out the finish is excellent.
My conundrum is that I can pick up a 13″ Delta or DeWalt for the same dough, but neither of the late model machines is American Iron, don’t weigh anywhere near as much. My concern is mainly the what ifs and whens about things breaking. I am assuming that the old iron is more fix and keep friendly than stuff from the disposable generation but I’m not sure. The finish is certainly on par with anything new that comes close in price, and the 5 horses just blows the other units away. The thing is, 95% of what I work with is cedar and some spruce. The small amount of hardwood that I use is really not even a factor, but I do need a planer.
Any ideas, suggestions or warnings would be greatly appreciated.
Replies
workn,
The last time I used one of these WAS in the 70's. It's only fault, was the tendency for the rubber feed rollers to get covered in dust, and start to slip, allowing the wood to stall and get burnt by the cutters. I imaging if it was hooked to some sort of dust collection, that wouldn't be as much of an issue. Seems like once one of the rollers came loose from its shaft and had to be replaced.
The one I used at that time had a three gib per knife set up in the cutterhead, which supposedly allowed for the removal of the knives and replacement with molding cutters--held in place by the center gibs. Sort of a williams and hussey molder type set up. I don't recall that we ever used that option.
Ray
I have no idea.. But...
"and I have to make a deal tomorrow."..
Maybe a real deal for you but I always get a bit worried if anybody tells me there is a 'immediate time limit' on any sale. Just how I think...
Maybe he really has to move tomorrow but if that is true.. Why not work out something with him to store it, while you try to find out if you can get new cutting blades and maybe some parts for it?
I am not saying anything improper is going on from the sellers point of view... but... I would think a honest seller would give you a few days 'to get your questions answered' before you put any cash into his/her bank account..
A repair/replacement of a 5 Hp motor can get very expensive.. Plus the electrical bill you may receive using it, or the cost of installing the 'wiring' to use it, if you do not already have it available. Motors vary alot depending on design and price. A 5 Hp motor can be very much overkill for the woods you want to use (As to the electric bill and other considerations) .. Not sure, but it seems to have, a very wide range of cutting depth compared to my 13"? DeWalt.
I do think that the weight of a old 5 Hp motor will be a good center of gravity to keep the machine from tipping over with heavy 'sticks' run through it.
EDIT: as jointersworks said.. It's only fault, was the tendency for the rubber feed rollers to get covered in dust, and start to slip, allowing the wood to stall and get burnt by the cutters.
Is this not true of ANY machine with feed rollers? Whatever size or Hp....?
Saw it, tried it, let it pass ...for now
Thanks for the replies. The moving story was legit. The seller is an 85 yr. old cabinet maker who's been selling off his tools for a few months now and I missed most of the really nice hand tools. Bein' as he's 85 and part of the Greatest Generation, as well as being a WWII Vet, it would have been a first if he turned out to be tryin' to screw me. Not to say it couldn't happen, but it's the generations since theirs that are usually a problem. The rush was all mine because he was advertising it on CL and I figured it would go fast.
He was straight about having bought less than a year ago and cleaning it up a bit, everything he said jived. Looking at the tables and the grind its obvious that the tool hasn't seen much use. Running what appear to be the original knives (yes there were three and it does look like it would accept the molding option) it did a fine job with 11" pin knotted pine and some smaller white oak scrap. No snipe, or dust hood which is fun, but I did see the outfeed roller start slipping acfter just a slight bit of dust from the first board through. The beds are all co-linear and flat both ways but the table was not completely parallel to the cutting path side to side. In other words an 11" wide board finsihed 3/4" thick along one 10' edge and 3/64" fat along the opposite edge. Flip the board and feed it again and everything is peaches.
Looking at the vertical adjustment (4 threaded vertical posts with fixed sprockets on each - all linked by the same bicycle chain) it seemed that the only way to tune it up would be to pull the chain off and bump two rods on the same side one tooth at a time before replacing the chain, then fire it up and run another board. That's when I started gettin' a headache because the chain itself has so much slop in it I just wasn't seeing it ever being anything close to precise. The side of the outfeed roller that started to slip was the same side that was cutting fat.
Ultimately I told him that I'd hold off buying anything for another week or so to see if he could get more for it, but to me it was only worth $250 and most of that was for the motor. I'm not going to be running whatever I get more than a couple of hours a month so the electric consumption isn't going to kill me (my wife's hot tub and the kids pool that I get to care for are a lot bigger waste as far as I'm concerned).
When I left I stopped to sell some other power tools to a fellow and as we talked about my experience he shared the story of a nice Parks that was similar, but nicer, that he had just picked up for $200 at an estate sale. Might be going back to the wait and see what turns up mode for a while. The old fella' was a hell of a nice guy though. I'd almost buy it just 'cuz I liked him so much.
You sure missed out on a nice planer I have one passed down to me from my Dad purchsed new by him.
Been there done that.
http://www.familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8537
You can get gib plates with the screws that are in from the sides like we see used today in planers & Jointers, I think I got mine from woodmaster all the rest of the parts are from Belsaw. http://www.belsaw.com/ The style of gibs Belsaw used were very difficult to set as they tended to lift the knives as you tightened them. In the thread you can also see the improvement I made for dust collection...the 10" HVAC boot & the aluminum deflecter I riveted under the the top of the planer this has worked out well I couldn't find a 12" boot but it doesn't seem to need it.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled