I tried an Oneida Dust Deputy.
I had high hopes. I really wanted it to work.
I’ve had a Fein shop vac for ten years, and my only complaint with it was that the filter jams up so fast, and the Dust Deputy’s claim was that it would fix that.
Well, it doesn’t.
I bought the kit, and installed it on the lid of a 30 gallon trash can. Good seal, It actually comes close to collapsing the garbage can (!) if you block the intake.
But at least 50% of the crap gets through the “cyclone”. It doesn’t do much at all, and it really cuts down on the power of the vac.
I’m bummed, I wanted it to work.
Replies
Dust Deputy Failure
Thats very bad news Jammer. I have a Clear Vue Mini CV-06 which is based on Bill Pentz design. It work like a hot damn but Oneida filed a patent infringement claim so Clear Vue stopped selling until the matter could be resolved. Maybe cases like this will help. I looked at the Dust Depty at a local retailer and noticed some pretty obvious design differences.
One thing to check is whether or not you have to much volume. My Mini CV06 is connected to a Sears shop vac and is mounted on a a 5 gallon pail. I have little to no carry over.
I seem to recall that one of Bill Pentz early designs had so much flow that nothing remained in the cyclone waste bin, but I cnnot see your Fein vac having that much power.
If the opening into the waste bin is obstructed you would see carry over, if the bin fills up you will get carry over. Check inside the Dust Deputy to ensure it is clear all the way up inside the cyclone.
If everything is clear then you may have a dud. Send it back.
Don
Clear Vu is shut down-- they closed their doors. He claims he's retiring.
My "system" was set up on a regular trash can, and the can was empty for my "test".
The Dust Deputy is only semi-opaque, so you can watch the stuff swirling around. It looks to me like it swirls and swirls and swirls, and then some of it goes down, and some of it goes up. I have no idea what that means...
I don't think it has very much flow at all-- the suction at the end of the hose sure dropped when I got it all hooked up, and I had to do some jury rigging to get it hooked up. The Dust Deputy has outlets for 2" or 2-1/2" hoses, and the Fein is 1-1/4". So it seems to me like the flow would drop off there, anyway.
I'll have to see if I can return it, I bought the kit. So, by definition, it's been installed. :(
Clear Vue vs Dust Deputy
Clear Vue has new owners. Ed did retire but another company has taken over and Clear Vue is back in business.
Now the Mini CV 06 is still on hold because of the Oneida patent infringement claim.
I would contact Oneida first and try to trouble shoot the problem. Most of the waste should fall out into the trash can. I have sucked up sawdust from my sander, dirt and sand from the garage floor. It all goes in the bucket.
My system is all 2 1/2" and works like a charm. Now if there is any leakage on your trash can lid, you are going to get carry over. There can be no - "0"- air leakage - none - zip - from the can back to the cone or you are hooped. The garbage can has to be 100% dead air. If your plastic can is collapsing it might be breaking the seal enough to create back flow.
Don
New Thought
Now there's a new thought-- it hadn't occurred to me the seal was breaking.
It's not a plastic can, it's a standard, old fashioned steel can. I figured that when it started to collapse, that proved it was sealing.
Maybe your vacuum is too good
I have this attached a mid-sized craftsman shop vac and it works fine. I got the full kit with the two 5gal buckets, and bolted them onto my vac and put a caster underneath. I use the vacuum for sanding, clean-up, and with my router table, and it works great, with very little getting through to the vacuum except when I forget to empty the bucket after it's about 2/3 full. I'm wondering if the Fein vacuum is so much better that it overpowers the cyclone. Is there any way to turn the power down?
Simon
First time
That would be the first time that any of my equipment was too good!
The Fein is a good vac, but to me, its' selling point was always the low decibel level, not the power. This vac has never struck me as being particularly powerful.
Putting 2" hoses on it killed it dead. It has very little power through that.
I've set it aside for the time being, I get annoyed every time I look at it.
One of these days, I'm going to see if I can get 1-1/4" hose hooked up to the dust deputy, because that's what the Fein was designed to run. If it doesn't run then, I'm going to return it.
I figure I'll go down to Rockler, and do some whining. I can't be the first guy who tried to hook a Dust Deputy up to a Fein vac. Maybe they have access to the piece I need to run 1-1/4" hose to the Dust Deputy.
I looked at the Clear Vu site- I see they are, indeed, back up and taking orders.
It strikes me that they're a mite confused about how patents work, they intend to "get it straightened out", and resume selling their Dust Deputy-like product.
Oneida has a PATENT. Game over. Ask Edison, he invented the telephone, and Dude beat him to the patent office.
The Dude Abides.
Dude Six out.
Oneida vs Clear vue
Jammer,
The sales plug on the web says this "benefits everyone with a shop vacuum". Usually we go from big pipe to little as we move away from the vacuum, not the reverse. Maybe the Dude doesn't know about Fein vacs.
Oneida only challenge the Mini CV06. Clear Vue chose to not sell their Mini CV06 cyclone, not their entire line. Oneida would have their hands full if they attempted to challenge every cyclone manufacturer, don't you think?
I haven't seen the patent, but the Mini CV06 appears to be a proportionally shrunk version of their larger cyclones. The previous owner did not have the interest in challenging Oneida's claim. Perhaps the new owners will. Challenging a patent claim can be very expensive. An acquaintance of mine spent several hundred's of thousands challenging his patent and lost.
I would like to see Clear Vue put forth a challenge, then you could buy a mini that works :-)))
Don
Agreed
Now that, I agree with. Oneida could use both a challenge and some competition. I would definitely like Clear Vu to stand up to what appears to me to be the first charge of a bully. And I would like to see the the charge stopped, the bully turned aside, and the competition judged by the forces of the market.
I just don't think it will happen.
I haven't seen the patent, either, but because it exists, I bet the price tag to stop the charge will have six figures. But that's just my speculation.
If the Clear Vu version came back on the market, after seeing the performance of the Dust Devil (about 40% of what they claim, by my eyeball) I would be tempted to buy a Clear Vu version just to "test" them side by side.
I use the parenthesis because my "tests" would hardly be worth of the title, I would simply hook them up side by side and clean the shop. Then I'd look in the trash can, and eyeball it. Hardly objective.
Mini Cyclones
Jammer,
I was poking around in the workshop gallery yesterday and came across this setup: https://www.finewoodworking.com/item/27258/garagewoodworks-shop-tour
Now take a look at his early mini cyclone. http://www.garagewoodworks.com/garage_blog/
If this works, then your DD should.
Hope you call Oneida and see what they know.
Don
Testing
I think you hit the nail on the head, Don.
I set about testing your idea that the lid wasn't sealing to the can.
Because of the low power of the Fein when the Dust Deputy was attached, I also bought a new shop vac, from Lowe's. It's a model designed to run on 2-1/2" hose. I'm MUCH happier with its performance.
The first thing I did was simply hook it all up, with a brand new filter and a completely empty trash can.
Here are some shots, of the setup and the first results.
Next Step
What I did then was carefully run a bead of silicone caulking around the rim of the garbage can before I put the lid on.
Not a permanent solution, it would make a mess every time I emptied the thing, and I already have plenty of procrastination excuses. And the silicone has a tendency to show up in my hair, on my toes, on my pillow, and various other places that I'm quite certain I never applied it.
There were dramatic results, even though it took more than half the tube!
Conclusion
My conclusion is simple, that the lid isn't sealing to the trash can.
Not sure what to do about that, need to design some simple, re-usable seal that I can slip on and off to make a good seal.
In my shop, equipment takes a beating, and I don't think plastic would hold up very long, but that may be what it comes down to if I can't get a real garbage can to seal.
It's still not perfect, and it's certainly still nowhere near Onedia's claims, but it's much better than it was, and I'm convinced you found the solution.
So thank you, Don!
Sealing lids
Jammer,
Closed cell weather stripping or TAGO Backer Rod Foam Insulator - round grey foam material that comes in big rolls (sold by the foot) and diameters from about 1/4" to over 1".
The TAGO brand is what Home Depot carry in Canada. If you use the backer rod, carefully slit it in half and glue the flat side to the lid.
You can then run a bunge cord across the lid and secure in the handles.
Another option would be to make a new lid out of MDF and route a groove all the way around to catch the rim of the can, stuff some 1/4" rod foam in the groove.
Don
My Understanding
The way that I understand how a cyclone works is that debris and dust enter the cyclone entrained in air, and when they travel around the circular perimeter of the the cyclone, centrifugal force throws the debris and the dust out of the stream of air and against the sides of the cyclone.
High speed, therefore, is desirable in that it increases the centrifugal force.
I love my DD. I have an early steel model with the shop vac size output but only 1.5" input. I mounted it on top of a 10 gallon steel garbage can. It was tough to make the seal, but I got it to work and practically nuthin makes it to my shop vac filter. I wish I had a later model the had a larger input hose diameter. I wonder if that makes it work less efficiently though. The smaller diameter that I have probably increases the velocity of the dust entering the cyclone, but the hose clogs more easily.
FWIW, I first bought a Clearvue and it arrived cracked. The design is probably a good one, but the production was not mature. If they made it from metal, it would be awesome.
Started to build my own
I'm no expert but I think the cyclone works based on the air flow being enough to keep the dust moving so it's forced into the can. Centrifical force separates the dust from the air. A small 1.25 hose I suspect does not have enough flow to keep the dust moving fast enough and it's sucked out befor getting to the can.
I used the plans on Bill P's site (mentioned above) to cut out the parts for a metal cyclone based on his design. Other priorities has kept me from finishing it. I used sheet metal from an old dryer. I hope it will work great.
Jim
Yup
...and the grey hose goes off to the wand? That's the way I did it.
Let me see if I can attach some pictures. I tried this, and couldn't get it to work. Let me try again.
Doesn't show it very well, but yes, the top hose goes to the vac.
Late comer to this thread. I am involved with multiple industrial cyclones, and carryover usually has one of two root causes. First, insufficient incoming velocity to get the solids stream to the wall of the cyclone, which does not seem to be your problem or an air leak in the down leg such that air flow is created from the bottom of the cyclone. Even a pin hole in your trash can, perhaps where the handles attach would be enough. From you description of am pretty confident of an air leak.
The idea of weatherstripping on the can lip or perhaps a smooth bead of the silicone that you allow to cure may solve a leak under the lid. I used weatherstripping on my separator and it is working well.
Sealed
I'm pretty sure I have most of it sealed up, now.
I used silicone to "glue" a ribbon of caulking backer strip into the lid, and it seems to be sealing.
The trash can is picking up a LOT more-- like 70 or 80% of the stuff, now. The trash can is going to get full long before the shop vac, so I'm happy.
I think you guys were absolutely right in your diagnosis.
I'm not sure how I'd check the trash can for pinholes or leaks, though...
"I'm not sure how I'd check the trash can for pinholes or leaks, though..."
You might try the same method we use to check for pinhole light leaks in large-format cameras - put a good light source inside the container, then turn off the lights and let your eyes adjust. The pinhole leaks will be apparent in the dark.
Trash can
Do not make the mistake of lining the trash can with a plastic bag. It will cause the flow to go into your shopvac.
Nope
I already learned that, it sucked the whole trash back right up the cyclone, which is another reason I want to figure out how to investigate the can for holes. I don't think the trash bag would move unless it was getting air on the outside of it.
Divers
That's one of the ways divers check drysuits for leaks! I should have thought of that!
Bagged
I had an idea for the seal-- but then the bag wasn't big enough.
But then I noticed my roll of Man Seal, and I think it's sealed!
Done
Well, that didn't last long. But I got it sealed. I was quite surprised-- it's only 14 psi, for gawd's sake...
I may have to break down and go back to a five gallon pail.
Either that, or I'll build and airtight container, out of plywood, that holds the trash can. So the pressure is on the cabinet, not the trash can.
That sounds like a lot of trouble to go to, though... I'll probably just go to the pail, like the rest of the world.
On a good note, this thing really works! It picked a third of a trash can of debris, and very, very little got through!
I have the clear vue mini and it also collapsed the trash can until I put in some cross braces of plywood. Just shove a tapered sheet in to hold the can out and a coupe of other tapered pieces at a right angle to that. + doesn't have to be pretty.
the can did leak until I did that, when it collapsed the seal at the top wood break
Chris
I have the clear vue mini and it also collapsed the trash can until I put in some cross braces of plywood. Just shove a tapered sheet in to hold the can out and a coupe of other tapered pieces at a right angle to that. + doesn't have to be pretty.
the can did leak until I did that, when it collapsed the seal at the top wood break
Chris
Go with the Dust deputy 5-gal can!!!
I couldn't believe the problems you guys are having with this system. I was smart enough (well... more like dumb luck) to get it with Oneida's 5-gal bucket attached. It worked great right out of the box. No duct tape, silicone sealant, or internal bracing. Sure, the 5 gal bucket needs emptying more often, but I just pop off the lid and empty it. Done. With this system when the 5 gal bucket is filled there's less than a cup of sawdust in the shop vac.
Suggest you try a plastic bucket with an internal gasket in the lid - Dunkin Donuts often will give them away, or the orange ones they sell at HD. Just make sure the lid either has a gasket in it or a very tight fit. The Oneida-supplied plastic bucket and lid don't have a gasket, but the lid snaps on tightly enough that there are no leaks.
If you know someone with a swimming pool, the chemicals usually come in 5-gal plastic buckets with tight-fitting lids.
Orange
I'm using the orange one from Homeless Despot.
I just emptied it for the first time, and I can't believe how bloody hard it was to get the lid off!
I must be getting old. I don't remember ten minute hand-to-hand fights with lids, or needing two tools in my youth...
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