Replies

1. 
   Don01 | Oct 20, 2010 09:19pm | #1

   Cyclone Decision

   ADDED: The Pro1500 has a very nice curve. You  have to be a bit careful about the noise these things make. Looks good on paper, but when it is all around you it might be overwhelming. Be nice if you could find a unit in service in your area.If you have ben to Penz's site hopefully you have downloaded the static calculator. You know that you need at least 5 -6" main ducting to maximize the efficiency of the machine. In the static calculator sheet at line 116 there is a chart (Hobby Fan Table) which gives examples of what cfm you can expect for different blower size, HP, duct diameter and SP loss.

   Draw up your layout and use the calculator the determine your SP losses for the longest run and what you need to preserve the 800 cfm at the tool. Don't be afraid to contact Bill directly to confirm your calculations.

   According to the chart, 2HP, 12" impeller 6" duct is the absolute minimum.

   The Oneida 2HP super gorilla appears to give slightly less than 800 cfm @ 7.3"SP and slightly over 800@ 6.5"SP. They do not provide a curve for the V-2000 2HP. But the best output number is lower than the Super Gorilla. The Gorilla has a larger exhaust filter which is a plus.  

   This is a personal safety item so you want to do it right. Better to have some some over capacity than to little.

   Don

     ADDED: The Pro1500 has a very nice curve. You  have to be a bit careful about the noise these things make. Looks good on paper, but when it is all around you it might be overwhelming. Be nice if you could find a unit in service in your area.

2. 
   gpssam | Oct 21, 2010 09:36am | #2

   contact them

   Have you discused your layout and requirements with Onieda? I have dealt with them in the past and found them very helpful.

3. 
   medicinedog | Oct 21, 2010 01:56pm | #3

   dust collectors

   I called Onieda and they recommend the Mini Gorilla. I believe its a 1.5 hp unit with a 6" impeller. It comes with 5" x 10ft long hose. While its a mobile unit I think I would place it in the middle of my "28 ft tool wall" with the too biggest offenders the table saw and the jointer  on either side. The outside tools - a bandsaw and a router table are mobile and I would move those over to the Mini Gorilla. Onieda says this will be more than adequate. They indicate they can set me up so that all machines will have 5 inch to the 4" primary ports with a branch to the top of the machine. I questioned the 4" port and they indicated even with an after market 6 inch port the machines internal dust collection is based off 4" so it doesnt really make sense to switch.  I am somewhat lost in all this.  If 6" is what is needed why do these big machines come with 4" ports? Is the state of the art seriously lacking?  Between 1-2 thousand dollars for a dust collection system and you are not getting whats needed?  In what circumstance is the Mini Gorilla adequate? Woodworkers should not have to have an engineering degree to buy a dust collectiion system. I'm not looking for an argument, I just want to know if I'm wasting my money.

1. 
   Don01 | Oct 22, 2010 10:46am | #4

   Min Gorilla - Not a good choice

    When I read your initial post, the qualifier was you already have some respiratory problems. I ended a 30+ affair with tobacco 8 years ago. When I started researching dust collection, adequate was not not an acceptable standard. I chose the Clear Vue CV 1800 for my 15' X 25' X 10'H shop. Probably overkill but the design is solid and will serve my needs for the rest of my life.

   Pentz talks about the undersized dust ports, and acknowledges the need to make modifications. But if you look at what is required, your big fine dust producers typically need 2 ports. Your  table saw, regardless of built in port size, will still throw huge amounts of dust in your face without an over blade shroud. Bandsaw ports, especially on the smaller machines are pathetic. The blade almost acts as a bucket elevator, holding the dust and spewing it out as the blade comes off the lower wheel. Routers benefit from lower and fence level ports. Jointers and planers are tougher, but a 4" primary and a 3" secondary near the cutters head is not a bad idea.

   Again, I encourage you to contact Pentz and get his input. I still do not accept that anything 1-1/2HP can provide the CFM required to capture a significant amount of fine dust. 

   The Mini Gorilla is NOT a good choice for you. The web details focus more on the exhaust filter than its actual capacity - which is a paltry 600 CFM! Based on the way Oneida and others advertise, this is the best this machine can deliver in some optimized test environment. Not at all adequate in my opinion and I cannot understand why Oneida would even sell such a device! You definitely want some over capacity in the cyclone and the ducting - I think. 

   You need a minimum 2HP and preferably 3HP, 6" ducting to your machines or you will be throwing good money away. 

   Don

1. 
   medicinedog | Oct 22, 2010 04:13pm | #5

   Dust

   Thanks Don. I appreciate the straight forward opinion. 

2. 
   BillA | Jan 28, 2011 11:51pm | #10

   Same desire- different product

   PMJI, but I have a similar issue in that I'm exploring options for a dust collection system. I have a 20x20 shop and looking for a system that would be adequate with one tool at a time in use with 30' of ducting. I wandered in to my local Woodcraft today and noticed a Laguna 2HP mobile cyclone system. http://www.lagunatools.com/accessories/dustcollectors/dustcollector-cyclone2_2#

   I asked if it would work as a stationary system and support a shop my side. They said it would. What I really like about it is that it is only 70" tall, so I could put it under the shed roof behind my shop. Would cut down on noise and also less issues with finer dust coming out the filter -as it is not physically in my shop. Thoughts? Options for other systems that have a reasonably low height profile?

1. 
   Don01 | Jan 30, 2011 04:09pm | #11

   You plan should work. The Laguna has an 8" inlet which is allows you run a good sized main header throguh the shop. 6" is likely the most econiomical, but check around for 7".

   Don

2. 
   gpssam | Oct 22, 2010 05:27pm | #6

   no sense

   That seems like a very strange recommendation for them to make. I have felt in the past that I had gotten good info from them, maybe things have changed. Maybe they are just trying to push the new product. For starters you don't need a mobile unit.

   I went from no collection at all to the 2hp super gorilla and it seems to do a great job, but like I said, before that all I had was a broom, so yes, to me it seems to do a great job. I have a 7" main line with 6" drops to the machines, all seams sealed with foil tape, and a blast gate at every machine. The machines are all modified with 6" openings. I do not agree that the machines internally will only be able to support a 4" opening. I just need to look inside them to know that statement is false. Bill's site has a very large amount of info, read it. Search this forum, and other forums, you will find much information on this subject.  Then decide what you need to do for your own peace of mind. Good luck with your decision.

1. 
   Don01 | Oct 22, 2010 08:30pm | #7

   Bad advice

   I agree your assessment. I did quite a bit of digging around the Oneida site to get enough info to help compare. I was very surprised at the lack of performance curves or other performance data that was consistent with the data provided for their 2HP and larger units.

   Don

4. 
   gpssam | Oct 26, 2010 10:12am | #8

   made my own

   At my place of employment we end up with the occasional sheet of scrap aluminum. Being the scrounge that I am these come home with me. I made all of my own hoods and adapters from that. I used some pop rivets and self drilling screws for fasteners. I mocked up a couple of them with card stock first. I also made one from a hvac ducting a 6" round to floor register adapter.

5. 
   Don01 | Oct 27, 2010 06:17pm | #9

   6" Port Adapters

   6" anything is pretty scarce off the shelf. Lee Valley supply a metal blast gate the is bolted together so unbolting one provides 2 very robust adapters. These are available in 6, 5 and 4" and 2". I am sure there are other sources in your area.

    

    http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=51506&cat=1,42401,62597

   But, as I mentioned earlier, the some machines - i.e. table saws, bandsaws, radial arm/miter saws often require and benefit from t 2 ports, so splitting the 6" into a 5" and a 4" should give better results and save on expensive custom made port adapters.

   5" fittings

   The trick is, to not starve the air flow. Your cyclone blower is not built the same as your shop vac, so when you reduce a 6" duct to 2 1/2", the extra noise you hear is because the fan is turning faster because it is moving less air, not more air.   

   Don