I am cross-posting this on serveral forums….sorry for the redundancy!
Hi Everyone,
I am very grateful to everyone on the forum who has offered advice to me on my jointer questions. I am very happy with my Ridgid purchase, regardless of some minor issues that I need to resolve. I was hoping to elicit some comments on the most recent issue, as well as an opinion on my best course of action. Thanks in advance for your comments.
After making some test cuts in which the cut edge of the wood ocassionally bound-up (i.e. hit and got stuck) against the leading edge of the outfeed table (but only near the fence), I carefully measured the tables and fence on my new jointer using a 4″ machinists square, and I came up with some discrepancies. My measurements showed the following:
With the fence set square to the far end of the outfeed table, I checked the square at 2″ intervals — moving backwards along the outfeed table toward the cutter head — and the fence is measurably square along the entire length of the outfeed table.
However, as I continue to move backwards past the cutterhead, the fence is not square along the entire length of the infeed table. The minimum runout for the infeed table appears at the cutterhead end, and is about .019″. The maximum runout is at the far right end of the infeed table, and is .021″
I also checked the flatness of the tables and fence, and there appears to be no ripples greater than .005″ in height.
My questions now are: (1) Is this amount of difference in the infeed and outfeed table coplanarity acceptable and within the norm for this tool? and (2) If if is not within the norm, would I be best served returning the whole unit, or can an authorized service center repair it by shimming the tables, etc.
Replies
I'd take it back.
If I'm following what you are doing, what you are measuring is more likely misalignment or warpage in the fence, not a problem with the tables.
If you suspect a misalignment between the two tables, which could be, but is not likely to be, the cause of the problem you are describing, you will need to do some additional testing with an accurate straightedge, taking measurements across the cutter head opening.
You will also need a clear understanding of how to take some useful measurements of table flatness and alignment. I do this for a living and, in my experience, untrained workers using precision machinist's tools, usually are not accurately measuring whatever it is they think they are measuring.
This isn't meant to be a put down of anybody, its just that the geometry of machine alignment isn't always obvious and precise measurement is one of the true mechanical arts, requiring excellent quality tools, scrupulously maintained, and a fair amount of training and experience before a worker is reasonably proficient at taking accurate repeatable measurements.
If you are jointing the edge or face of a board with a pronounced upward bow, the board will occasionally snag on the edge of the outfeed table on the first pass or two. This isn't a fault of the machine, it would happen on any jointer.
My advice would be to use the machine and not worry about what the measurements tell you unless you can't get straight square stock off of the machine.
John W.
Edited 1/16/2006 8:46 pm ET by JohnWW
I have never been able to satisfactorily straighten a board on my jointer - a six inch Craftsman. In fact, I take a relatively straight piece and I think if I kept going long enough, it would end up in a circle, or at least a nice piece for a rocking chair. One thing I notice is if I hold a level down on the far end and corner nearest to the fence that the other end of the level is over one quarter inch off the table. Obviously I'm not a machinist to measure accurately but I have tried to adjust the knives to barely touch the level HDC when lying on the tables. The jointer is over thirty years old so is not eligible for exchange. I have thought of getting an eight inch jointer.
Three questions to start with, and I'll try to give you some help, though I won't have time to write further until tomorrow.
1. I'm probably just slow this morning, but what does HDC mean, as in your sentence "adjust the knives to barely touch the level HDC" ?
2 What is the model number of your machine, it should be something like #103.12345, it should be on a small metal plate somewhere on the machine. The motor may have a similar number on it but I don't need that, just the jointer number.
3. Are the knives sharp and what method do you use to set them? I don't need a detailed explanation, just a sentence or two.
John W.
Thank you for your response.
Question #1 I used HDC for Head Dead Center - "top of the arc" as another responder had it. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
Question #2 Serial number of jointer - 113.20650. The jointer didn't come with a motor so it was added later.
Question #3 I put a four foot aluminum level on top of the jointer with the tables as even as possible. I Turn the blades by hand so that each blade will move the level about one eighth inch on both front and back. I don't remember where I got that idea but I tried it a long time ago. I now have measuring tools so could try that in the future. I don't have any special training. I am looking for your reply.
You'd be better off just aligning the blades to the outfeed table. It would be very easy to introduce error laying the level across both tables, especially with an aluminum level that probably isn't all that straight over 4'. I use the straightedge method also, and it's extremely accurate as long as you have a good straightedge and the knives just tick the straightedge. If your knives are able to catch and move move your 4' level, you're probably getting a knife setting that's too high. The article:http://www.owwm.com/FAQ/JointerTune.aspmay also be useful.Pete
Thank You. I will try that. You'd think that after all these years, I should get some good out of that machine. Should I worry about the fact that the end of the outfeed bed is rounded down? Holding down the board at the end lifts the board clear off the opposite end near the knives.
Edited 1/19/2006 9:11 pm ET by tinkerer2
Some rounding is to be expected and isn't necessarily a problem. What matters is whether the outfeed table is flat overall. Check it with a good straightedge (or get a rough idea by checking with both sides of your level). It's likely that your adjustments are out enough that your boards are taking a slight curve, which will make them rock. You might also check out the jointer tune-up guide that I referenced for another poster in this thread.I reference it a lot, but the OWWM forum really is another great place to get help if you can't get it figured out.Pete
Thanks for your reply. The whole jointer is only three feet. If the outfeed table is flat for one foot before it begins to round off - is this enough? Your mention of the blades being too high may be my biggest problem. It is just too cold out there and late to check it out tonight.
Now I get it - you think the end awy from the knives might be rounded. I think this is very unlikely. I think you'll find that the table is flat enough, but that something else is out of whack.Pete
Not trying to be nasty but go to someone who uses a planer like a cabinet or furniture maker or even a "good" school shop teacher at the local school and find out if you are using the right technique. I know from experience that there is a "right" technique and the other techniques. A demonstration is 1000s of times better than any book or self taught technique.
It may not be any fault of your equipment.
Good luck!
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Hi John:
I have no reason to doubt what you say, though I am surprised that a warped fence would manifest itself in this way.
Assuming that the tables are coplanar -- based on what you say -- I would expect a warped fence to give me consistently lesser degrees of squareness as I measure from front to back (i.e. that the cast iron would be twisted in a smooth arc). What I am seeing is an obvious jump from perfect squareness on one table, to a more-or-less perfectly out-of-square measurement on the other table.
I'm guessing that HDC is the same as TDC in automobile mechanic's--Top or High Dead Center, e.g., when the Jointer Knife reaches the top of it's arc.Regards, Scooter"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
It sounds like your machine wasn't well adjusted at the factory. The binding problem may be ok in certain cases, but you should check the adjustment of the knives relative to the outfeed table as they may be too low.
I'm not sure how you're doing your fence measurements, but it sounds like the infeed and outfeed tables are not coplanar. If this jointer is a wedgebed, there should be gib screws along the back to tighten up the ways. If these are excessively loose or unbalanced, you could have this problem. Do not overtighten these screws. You want to take up the slack, and no more.
Pete
quesne, you can adjust this yourself. Use the jack screws on the infeed table and a long straight edge. aloha, mike
Ridgid ; 1-800- 4 ridgid and ask for tech support this is the number i was given yesterday to call for getting some info on my rigid edger
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