Replies

1. 
   Gretchen | Aug 02, 2005 12:33pm | #1

   From a recent thread about finishing an exterior door.  You could do your finish and topcoat with this "paint".

   OUOTE

   In a recent post my friend, Steve, made reference to my tests of doggie sprinkling on exterior finishes. I figure after almost a year of testing it is time to post some interesting discoveries.

   As a preface, allow me to set the stage. Almost daily there is a posting about clear, exterior finishes for doors, chairs, signs and such. Responses run the gamut from diehard marine finishes to apply a coat of primer and then paint. Each of these has a bit of a problem. Marine finishes are not always the easiest to find and it grieves me to think of a lovely oak, teak, mahogany, fir, redwood or similar nice wood door painted in mauve goop.

   Bob from Fl inspired me with his continuing and accurate statements about the failings of a clear coat and the advantages of a good quality exterior paint. I decided after lots of reflection that he really was right but there was always the picture of mauve in my mind. Sooooooooo, how could one take advantage of his advice and yet capitalize on the beauty of a nice wood.

   I began to reflect on the characteristics of paint. Now, comes the boredom.

   There were several things I knew about paint. Exterior paints contain a mildewcide and a fungicide that a varnish does not. The best quality paints will contain a UV protectorant and trans-oxide pigments in very high percentages. Almost all paint is custom mixed by the store. The retailer maintains a large supply of base products that are used to achieve the desired color. There are generally 4 base products and the specific one for your paint is determined by your color choice. These base products are either named or numbered. They are named pastel, deep, tint and neutral. If numbered it is cleverly 1, 2, 3 and 4 with the exception of Olympic who numbers 1, 2, 3 and 5. Olympic is unaware that 4 comes before 5. Pastel and/or 1 is virtually a pure white and used for the lightest of colors. The others are slightly color altered from white and more translucent than pastel. These are used for succeedingly deeper colors. All of this comes to neutral, 4 and/or 5. These are clear and used for the darkest colors. In the can they are somewhat opaque but dry more or less clear.

   Now comes the testing. I bought 4 oak exterior doors. Each door was given one coat of the same MinWax Stain. On 3 of the doors, I applied 2 coats of "base" to the 6 sides of each door (3 coats on the top and bottom edges). Each of these three doors had a different type of exterior neutral, 4 or 5 base. The fourth door was finished with a consumer "spar" varnish from my local friendly paint/hardware store. The bases for the 3 painted doors were an exterior semi-gloss acrylic, an exterior semi-gloss oilbased polyurethane floor paint and a semi-gloss oilbased trim and siding paint.

   The doors were set up, slightly inclined, in mostly direct sunlight under a pecan tree in the backyard. My wife just loved that one. Daily, the sprinklers managed to hit the doors. The birds in the pecan tree used the doors for target practice. And, yes, the dogs did anoint the doors on a regular basis. My blonde Cocker, Zazu, was particularly enamored with the doors. Over the course of the test the doors experienced lots of Texas sunlight, rain and snow. The temperature went from below freezing to over 100. The advantage to the inclined position of the doors was the snow, ice, water from the sprinklers and the rain tended to collect in the raised panel areas. I feel these doors were subjected to far more severe environmental conditions than would be expected from normal use.

   The results were interesting. The "spar" varnish looked fabulous but after about 2 weeks it began to develop small cracks. In rapid order the door began to turn black, started to mold and the smell was enough to knock a buzzard off of a manure wagon. The waterbased acrylic is milky in the can like a waterbased poly. It dried to a more or less water clear surface but was a bit cloudy. It tended to wash out the stain a bit. Over time it became cloudier and ultimately become almost white. But, it remained solid and protected the wood. The oil based bases are also a bit opaque in the can but dried to a clear finish that is almost identical to a spar varnish - they added an amber tone to the doors. Both the poly floor paint and the trim and siding paint remained "clear" over the entire test period.

   The testing came to an end with a bit of encouragement. My wife said something clever like, "Get those damned doors out of the backyard?". She does not understand science. The floor poly had some minor checking and a thinned coat of the same base over the surface made that disappear. The door with the oilbased trim and siding paint was perfect other than it had lost a bit of the gloss.

   So, I am with Bob - paint the door. My preference is the oilbased products. If you are predisposed to a waterbased use an acrylic rather than latex.

   One thing you will find when you go out shopping for your product is a lack of knowledge on the part of the salesperson. Not many of these folk are aware that their neutral or 4 base will dry clear. If you want to have some fun, spring it on them. They will suggest you are full of Donkey Dust. Ask them to shake a can and put some on a stir stick. Dry it and voila, it is clear.

   Jim Kull

   Gretchen
1. 
   Flappy | Aug 02, 2005 07:48pm | #2

   Gretchen,Thanks for the reply.
   Of course, after I posted my question, I found the exterior door question and suggestions, which I knew would apply to me as well.Flappy

2. 
   Rich14 | Aug 02, 2005 09:55pm | #3

   Flappy,

   To apply a clear finish to wood, in order to keep its beautiful look, and then subject it to the elements is a labor of love. Sailors have known this forever. I lovingly applied marine spar varnish to the teak on my sailboat at least once a year. I used the best (meaning the most durable with the most UV protection) and waiting a year was often too long. Some of my more meticulous friends were constantly involved in a program of sanding and finishing. They simply did a piece at a time, "circling" the boat, in the course of a year. Never finished, always finishing. But their woodwork looked great, always.

   Fortunately, I experienced a sailor's 2 happiest days: the day he buys his boat and the day he sells it.

   If you want your outdoor furniture to look the way beautifully-finished indoor wood looks, you need to constantly refinish it. No clear finish will last more than a few seasons, and all will show visible changes by the end of one (although the difference at that point may not be enough to make you refinish - yet).

   Alternatives are to build the furniture from a wood that weathers "gracefully" such as teak, redwood or cedar and accept the gray patina that developes (not to my liking at all) or to use paint or use a "transparent" oil stain from Olympic or Behr. We used a Behr product on cedar siding on our house in Maui. It stood up to the tropical sun for 4 years before it visibly started to need repainting. The wood character was not completely hidden as would have happened with a completely opaque paint.

   Rich

1. 
   Flappy | Aug 02, 2005 10:51pm | #4

   Rich,Thanks for the feedback. I guess it was wishful thinking on my part. I'll just let the happy newlyweds worry about it when the time comes. I recently refinished another set I built for other friends after a few years, but I was indebted to them anyway.I had some good friends who sold their house and bought a boat to sail the Caribbean for a few years. That's when I learned about the labor of love that comes with owning a sailboat.I've toyed with the idea of building something out of a recycled product like Trex or something like that. Do you have any experience using anything like that?Greg

1. 
   Ricks503 | Aug 02, 2005 11:04pm | #5

   That RICH was the signature at the end of the copied posty that Gretchen put up - not the poster - credit where credit is due.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

1. 
   Flappy | Aug 03, 2005 12:44am | #6

   Hey, I'm a rookie. I appreciate the advice and I'm deleting credit from Rich.

1. 
   Ricks503 | Aug 03, 2005 12:54am | #7

   I am fairly new also, sorry if I came across sounding sour, I am at work and just had a quick scan o fthe forum and time for a real quick post.

    

   Welcome and enjoy the (mostly) friendly people.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

2. 
   Rich14 | Aug 03, 2005 03:00am | #8

   Rick,Wha???!!What's the deal?Rich

2. 
   Gretchen | Aug 03, 2005 06:00am | #9

   That RICH was the signature at the end of the copied posty that Gretchen put up - not the poster - credit where credit is due.

   I have NO idea the "turn" this has taken but the long post about the paint base comes from WoodMagzine, courtesy of Howie and a whole lot of other people over there.  Credit goes there, if it is real important. 

   Gretchen

   Edited 8/3/2005 7:15 am ET by GRETCHEN

3. 
   WillGeorge | Aug 03, 2005 09:50pm | #10

   'm building Adirondack chairs, footrests and a table for friends who are getting married.

   for friends who are getting married...
   I for one wish them all the happy stuff for years to come...

   Make the furniture for them AND a screened in Porch to put them in!!

1. 
   Flappy | Aug 03, 2005 10:09pm | #11

   With 110° plus degrees daily in Las Vegas, they might as well enjoy them inside. Maybe I should worry more about spontaneous combustion instead.