Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Jan 27, 2005 10:12pm | #1

   Titebond III should work great.  Can't remember who it was, but recently one of our members posted about gluing up some panels, just foolin' around, and tossing 'em outside on the firewood pile.  Months and months later, during rain etc., the glue still held fast!  It is an exterior glue.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Rich14 | Jan 27, 2005 11:34pm | #2

   Pat,

   Why do you doubt Titebond III? It is water proof and should be perfect. You could also use Gorilla Glue (polyurethane). It has a long open time and gives an invisible glue line and sands beautifully. It doessn't stain the wood. You can clean it off the wood with acetone before it sets up, or sand it later. Either will do the job.

   Use a high-quality spar varnish for outdoor protection. The more expensive the better. In spar varnish, the amount of UV protection is directly related to price. Go to a marine supply store and buy their best brand. If it seems expensive, rest assured that the protection you will get far outweighs the initial cost. Cheap varnish will deteriorate in months. And the cost of refinishing will soon exceed the cost of the high-priced spread. A good marine spar varnish can give up to 2 years protection before you have to re-varnish. And you will always have to revarnish outdoor wood to keep it looking good. Owners of boats are always refinishing the exposed wood trim. It's a fact of life.

   Rich

   
   

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   Edited 1/27/2005 3:37 pm ET by Rich14

1. 
   tommy2 | Jan 28, 2005 04:20am | #3

   used tightbond 2 on a lounge i made with mahagony for my wife also used cabot austrailan oil on it held up real well this summer its now under a foot of snow in jersey but i think it will be ok.

2. 
   AlbionWood | Jan 28, 2005 09:11am | #4

   "It's a fact of life."Not according to the Smith & Co. guy. He claims that a 2-part aircraft poly over penetrating epoxy will last at least 8 years. (That's how long ago he did the first one, and it's still fine.) But this stuff is hideously expensive and not easy to apply.
   "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

3. 
   PatM | Jan 30, 2005 02:29am | #7

   Thanks for all your comments - they are helpful.Rich, I've been trying to find the article or review I read that led me to believe Titebond III is OK for outdoor use but not the best to use. Sorry I can't find it. Tim, I live in Colorado and it's really dry here so I feel the bench will need some kind of protection from becoming dust. I was wondering about epoxy but I need open time with this one. I am going to put copper booties on the legs so the water doesn't seep up from sitting in snow. I agree, I'll probably put screws in some places with pegs.Bayview - I originally thought Gorilla glue would be the way to go - and probably still do.
   I like your idea of the Penofin (?) and will look for it here. A penetrating oil is what I think I'll do because I'm trying to make this as uncomplicated for my client as possible - they are paying plenty for this piece. The whole back will be carved with elk. I haven't started yet.FYI - I posted my question on another site (wondering if Gorilla glue and spar-varnish was the way to go) and got a nasty reply that it wasn't a professional question. They told me the following:
   Gorilla glue is just polyurethane glue. The name "gorilla glue" has become common place like Kleenex or Velcro. However, that doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make the brand name stuff any better than the no name stuff - just more expensive.For exterior items, I prefer to use outdoor rated construction adhesives. IMO, these hold better under the changing climates than traditional glues. They are more flexible so joinery needs to be mechanically secured in some fashion to ensure that the item will stay together no matter what. I prefer to use pegs but wedges will work (as will screws but....).For a finish, either use paint or oil (preferred). DO NOT use polyurethane or varnish unless you like stripping and refinishing on a yearly basis.
   ____________
   So thanks for the kind advise on this site.
   Pat

1. 
   wrudiger | Jan 30, 2005 11:09am | #8

   Something to consider with those copper "booties" - they could actually speed rotting of the legs.  Unless they are permanately sealed (hard to guarantee) water will seep in and be trapped.  At least that's the theory I've worked with regarding concrete around fence posts (always have gravel at the bottom, concrete just on sides). 

   From the Titebond III web site, here is the test meet the ANSI/HPVA Type 1 water resistance spec:

   Type I testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 1" by 3" specimens, boiling them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 145°F oven for 20 hours. They are boiled for an additional 4 hours, then immediately cooled using running water. The specimens are sheared while wet, and the bonds must pass certain strength and wood failure requirements to pass the Type I specification.

   The manufacturer is certainly saying it is an appropriate glue for your application.

1. 
   PatM | Jan 31, 2005 08:18pm | #10

   Yea, I'm a little concerned about water seeping in so I was at least going to make the copper even with the wood (rabbit) and glue with epoxy. Do you think if I put a little sand between the wood and metal it would also help?
   Pat

1. 
   scooter1 | Jan 31, 2005 08:44pm | #11

   You can get a full hour of open time with West's Epoxy. That would be enough time to build an Ark. Regards,
   Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

2. 
   wrudiger | Feb 01, 2005 05:48am | #13

   Pat,

   I doubt the sand would help.  I honestly don't fully comprehend the forces you are dealing with - I'm 3rd generation Californian from the SF Bay Area so don't have nearly the same climate challenges.  I'm also of the "let it go to grey" school 'cause I detest maintenance.

   However, my bias would be to just make sure the furniture is sitting on something that drains well and leave it be.  My intuition (no science here - LOL) is that when you start wrapping it you are asking for problems.

   Regardless of how you deal with it, let us know in a few years how it turns out - I'm sure we will still be here :-)

   Wayne

2. 
   Gretchen | Jan 30, 2005 04:19pm | #9

   You might want to use the paint base used to make tinted paint. Use the oil based paint base that is used for the darkest colors. This is clear and is an excellent weatherproof finish. Gretchen

1. 
   Yogi | Feb 01, 2005 03:40am | #12

   That sounds like a heck of an idea-  Have you done it?  With what results?

3. 
   Bayviewrr | Jan 29, 2005 12:58am | #5

   I live on a barrier island and a lot of the rich folk have mahogany decks.  I finish them with Penofin (sp?).  The stuff is great but with the new regulations, I don't know how long it will be on the market here.  I would recommend it over varnish any day.  Varnish will yellow and crack over time (even spar varnish).  The Penofin is a penetrating oil.  As far as the glue...go with Gorilla glue.  Beats anything else for exterior exposure other than two part expoxy.

4. 
   Timel | Jan 29, 2005 05:12am | #6

   I built a semicircular white oak bench earlier this year and made a very conscious decision not to finish it. White oak weathers to a great patina. Consider the same for the mahogany. No painful refinishing every five / ten years.

   I used System 3 expoxy for the joinery (all loose tenon) but did pin all the joints based on advice of a friend who restores victorian greenhouses. I cheated a little I put 18/8 stainless screws through the joints and then plugged the holes.

   The final design point, because the bench is being permanently installed in a public location was to mount it on stainless pegs into a concrete block - which is overkill in your case I suspect. This is intended to keep it out of standing water and away from leaf mould which could cause the wood to rot. This, I think, resurrects a Shaker technique for mounting fence posts and outdoor benches. I noticed this at one of the shaker villages in NH - name escapes me at the moment.

   Good luck with the bench.

   Tim Lawson
   Soon-to-be furniture maker
   Port Townsend, WA

   Edited 1/28/2005 9:13 pm ET by Timel

   
   

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   Edited 1/28/2005 9:13 pm ET by Timel