hi folks!
I’m usually designing and building decks, not furniture, and I’d like some feedback on this outdoor table design. It’s going to be outside up in the Rocky Mtns. near Denver, so it’ll see extreme weather conditions.
I’ve designed it with weather in mind, for instance instead of thru mortises (which can trap water) I plan on using pocket mortises.
My biggest concern though is wood movement, especially the 3- 10′ wide and 10′ long wide top boards. I’ll be using kiln dried old growth vertical grain WR cedar http://woodsshop.com/WesternRedCedarDetails.htm
Do you think I could just screw/plug them down to those 4 cletes I show in this model, or will that create problems with the wood movement? I was kicking around ideas to screw up from underneath, using a wide headed screw, and somehow placing it so that it would slide as the wood moved, but that would make for a not so strong connection.
I was also thinking about screwing down the outer edge of the two outer boards, then using some type of concealed deck type fastener (slotted into the board’s sides) to secure the middle board.
Sorry, I live and work in the San Diego area and aren’t used to dealing with these type weather conditions! Appreciate any feedback on this. I’ve included he .skp file for you to poke around in.
Oh, and my client asked if I’d warranty this, and I said that I really couldn’t because of the extreme weather conditions, but that I would warranty my Workmanship. I’ve never had to Warranty my Workmanship. What type of phrasing would you use for a Warranty like this?
Edited 5/21/2007 1:23 pm by JoeWood
Replies
Still hoping to get some feedback about this table design, and especially about fastening those three 1.5"x10' top boards.
Here's a 3D pdf you can zoom on and rotate, in case you can't open a skp file.
http://www.woodsshop.com
Might use "buttons" to secure the top on the short sides.
In it's simplest form, it's an ell-shaped piece of wood screwed to the underside and extending into an elongated hole in the support beam. This allows the top to move with expansion and contraction and still stay attached firmly.
As to a warranty, I'd guarantee workmanship for five years, excepting damage from weather, insects, animals providing normal use, wear and tear. Cupping and warping I'd consider weather damage.
I wouldn't warrant the finish beyond the manufacturer's warrant, and I'd use a standard finish that's readily available to the purchaser.
Good luck.
lw, do you have any pictures or graphics of those buttons? I can't quite visualize what they look like. Sounds like a good solution though.http://www.woodsshop.com
Joe:Pardon the rather crude graphic. The proportions can vary with your tastes, this is a side view.Last time I made them I used maple, but any wood will work, scraps from the project you're working on should do fine.The tongue is at the bottom and extends into a hole bored into the apron, I rounded over the corners of it with a rasp and bored two holes slightly offset to make an oval (used a Forstner bit) and screwed the button to the bottom of the table I'd made, centered in the oval.Hope this makes sense.LeonLeon
My first preference would be to break up the 3 wide boards into 6 boards of 5" width. You could then screw them from the cleat underneath with relative impunity.
The cleats you are considering are commonly used to hold down tabletops, but the prerequisite is to have a base (legs and aprons) which is solid as it stands alone. From what I see in your plan, you are relying on the attachment of the top to give the table stability. Even if it leaves the shop quite stable, the cleats will not agree to do this over time.
So I'd say that it would be best to alter the plan in some way -
1. Break the top planks into narrower pieces.
2. Make the base as a solid construction in its own right.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
If you have gaps between the boards on the top, you'll have better drainage and the wood movement will be relieved to some extent. Looking at cedar fencing, I expect that the ends of the tabletop will quickly curl up or down. A breadboard with over sized mortises on each end will help keep them flat to each other. The tenons on each board should have room to float. You can pin the outside edge of the outside boards and have them expand to the gaps on either side of the center board.
I haven't done this, but seems like it would work. Small copper pipe could be placed in dados underneath each board. These would run under the table top across the boards. You could screw flat copper pieces spanning the dados to the boards to hold the pipes in the troughs. If not too tight, the wood can slide over the pipes expanding/contracting at will. Waxing the pipes should be okay too to ease the movement. Rectangular frames of copper pipe could be used to keep the sides from curling up if you like. Not sure how thick your boards are, but if you wanted you could thicken the edges them with a laminated 3 or 4 inch strip around the perimeter to hide any copper that might show. A pipe rectangle dadoed underneath the boards at each end might eliminate the need for the breadboard.
I had a friend who lived in the foothills outside of Denver. His wife's antique furniture did not do well in the arid climate since it was not built for desert air.
Edited 6/6/2007 11:03 pm ET by kenshep
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