Replies

1. 
   BrianF | Apr 21, 2003 05:47pm | #1

   John, It sounds like you have described what I do almost exactly. The only difference is that I do a few kitchens a year (mostly past clients and family friends, I hate them, too many simple boxes with doors). I too used to make all my own doors on the shaper untill one of my friends suggested outsourcing the doors. I found a place in La Crosse, WI that used to be called The Cabinet Factory, now called Walz Craft. They build doors, drawer fronts and boxes, millwork and other accessories like wine rack lattice etc.. You can get literaly hundreds of combonations of stile and rail, edge, and panel profiles, and lots of wood species. They will even do one door orders. There is usually an 8-14 day lead time, but it will often come earlier. The quality is real good, take them out of the packaging and stain them. You can check them out at http://www.walzcraft.com or e-mail me for more info.

   I've used them for a few years and found it to be helpfull. I know exactly what my costs are (sqft pricing) and when they will be done. It really saves me alot of time in the shop doing repetitive work at the shaper and I can turn more of the boring jobs that I have to get done so I can try to get to the more interesting skilled work. If you look at the hours that you have in building doors and the price to have them made you will be amazed. You can mark them up and make some money on them and still get them cheaper than you can make them for.I also work alone for the most part, I get help for installation, so I have more work than I know what to do with and the time I don't spend building doors allows me to get through more jobs. I am also a stay-at-home-dad with two young kids and it gets me some more time to take the kids out fishing and weather permitting turkey hunting next week.

   Brian

1. 
   camel | Apr 24, 2003 06:30am | #7

   Thanks for the info. Didn't mean to be rude and not acknowledge your response. I don't get on here so much anymore.

   That link is probably the best looking source I've seen so far. Like others have expressed, one of my main concerns is width of boards and color and grain in panels. Like many, I am very picky about the frame grain vs. the panel grain. They should differ. But you know, not everyone of my customers really knows or cares enough to pay for the difference in the time it takes vs. glueing up scraps for the panels. Which I could never do cause I wouldn't get any sleep.

   You know what else is one of my biggest pet peeves? When they will run the grain upside down in the panel or the frame, or both. I'm baffled by it.

   Thanks again.John E. Nanasy

2. 
   RW | Apr 22, 2003 01:04am | #2

   This might be a good argument for membership in professional organisations, such as homebuilders groups. You'd get to know who was set up for what, and who did what better than anyone else.

   I can build cabinets too. I do pretty good work. The time it takes me to do it generally equals a lack of competitiveness, so for me, knowing various other remodelers, cabinet shops, etc, helps me narrow the field and focus on the mantra of "what you don't do best, sub". Just knowing the playing field, if you don't already, could help.

   The example that comes to my mind is a friend of mine who set up his shop intending to do cabinetry and furniture. His niche came looking for him. With a wealth of other cabinet makers around, the demand for another run of the mill guy wasn't there, but he does outstanding work and likes dealing with exotics. So for cabinets, if you want a 40' built in out of sapele, he's the guy, but I suspect he spends about 80% of his time doing doors. Other shops sub doors to him. Homebuilders order custom doors from him. Then he's got odds and ends like me that say "I need 6 raised panel oak cabinet doors". If I can wait a little, he works it in with a bigger order when the machines are already set up. Then there's no way to compete.

   The trade off on the professional organisation thing is they'll throw stuff at you too. They might do your doors, but they'll find something you do better and there you are. I'm always finding myself color matching trim pieces for remodelers. Little stuff, like 80 feet of base. "Make it look like the rest of the house." They know how to finish, but they don't understand a color wheel. I guess what goes around comes around. Good luck to you!

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

1. 
   Robbie | Apr 23, 2003 09:05pm | #3

   I will second the comment on the Cabinet Factory / Waltzcraft.  I use them and it is true... they can make a raised panel door more efficiently and less expensively that I can.  The will build to either the 16ths or 32nds of an inch.  They are always on time, their care in packaging is incredible - down to shooting expandable foam into the box to prevent shifting.  Selection of wood species and grades as well as door styles is very good.  Try it. 

   Found this post looking for a source of pre-finished plywood in the Chicago (northern suburbs) area, but no good yet.

3. 
   WorkshopJon | Apr 24, 2003 04:15am | #4

   "I too used to make all my own doors on the shaper untill one of my friends suggested outsourcing the doors. I found a place in La Crosse, WI that used to be called The Cabinet Factory, now called Walz Craft. They build doors, drawer fronts and boxes, millwork and other accessories like wine rack lattice etc.. You can get literaly hundreds of combonations of stile and rail, edge, and panel profiles, and lots of wood species. They will even do one door orders. There is usually an 8-14 day lead time, but it will often come earlier. The quality is real good... "

   FYI to all,

   I been using Walz Craft (formerly Cabinet Factory) for selected work for ~ 4 years. I would say good workmanship as far as the quality of their millworking goes, but some of the color/grain/pattern  matching can be (to me) disapointing. Obviously, for some wood species, this is more important than others. Not to sound critical, just that I'm picky. As far as overall quality and value, they really are hard to beat. If anyone is interested, I could post pics of what I mean.

   Jon

1. 
   BrianF | Apr 24, 2003 05:44am | #5

   Jon,

   I won't disagree too loudly with you on that point, especially if you use the "natural" grade for the doors. When I make furniture projects I still run all my own. I just can't compete on price on a kitchen with 30-40 doors. I really have yet to have a real problem but there have been some that I surely wouldn't have glued next to each other. I did a kitchen last year in red birch and specified the "select" grade because I was worried about color matching with just a clear finish and was happy with the results, but you pay extra for that.

   Is there some one else you use or do you make the rest of your doors yourself? I'm always looking to make my projects better when I can, and stil remain competitive.

   Brian

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Apr 24, 2003 06:20am | #6

   Brian,

   Never ordered anything other than "select grade" from Walz. I feel they do offer a good product for the price they charge. If you are doing a project that needs 30+ doors, they are the way to go. Depending on what specie wood, you still may have to do quite a bit of fudging and touch ups. If you're doing something like a high end custom entertainment center that doesn't need a lot of doors, and if you have the skills and facilities, and a decent selection of lumber, you should be able to do a lot better yourself when it comes to grain and color matching. My comments weren't meant as a criticism, just a reality check.

   Jon

1. 
   BrianF | Apr 24, 2003 03:57pm | #8

   Jon,

   No offence taken on this end. Like I origianlly said using them is a means to an end for me. I live up here in Green Bay and most of my customers replies to the question of what wood species for their project is "Oak of course, it's the best wood there is. Isn't it?". I don't think any of them could sort oak from ash from hickory if they tried. I built a kitchen recently for a friend who is rehabing a small starter home and price was an object. I used rotary cut oak ply for the back side of the penninsula and every one raved about how beautiful the wood was, while I rolled my eyes and tried not to gag. If it's oak and medium walnut stained in GB it must be good. Once in a while I can find some one who knows and cares and I love those clients. It is alot easier to be inspired when you know that it is going to some one who appreciates the effort.

1. 
   WorkshopJon | Apr 24, 2003 04:49pm | #9

   Brian,

   I have to agree with you about too much of the general public being (searching for a polite word here) naive as to what is and isn't well thought  out and executed furniture and cabinetry. It's amazes me how when I go through the Parade of Homes models every year and look at the supposed "custom" cabinetry and millwork, and just shake my head. Along the lines of your comment "...every one raved about how beautiful the wood was, while I rolled my eyes and tried not to gag." I see the same thing all the time. Often a client (who can afford it) needs to be educated as to what makes for good furniture. Makes them feel good about spending the extra bucks.

   Jon