Replies

1. 
   peter28 | Mar 29, 2007 03:33am | #1

   biuldthis,

   What type of paint did you use that didn't hold up. Also how much wear and tear do you think they will be subjected to?

   You may consider using an oil based paint. When it has dried for a day or so, sand it out with 220 or 320 as needed to smooth the surface. I would follow that with a rubbing with a maroon scotch pad. Clean all the dust well and then apply a clear coat of a varnish or urethane.

   I don't know what color you are using but there is an easy way to tint the varnish to take the inherent yellowing if that will be a problem.

   You can use UTC ( universal tinting colors) or some japan paint.

   In a separate container mix some varnish and thinner about 5050. To this slowly add the color to match your paint. This is not an exact science and you have to be the judge. Once it is fully incorporated I would filter it through a paint strainer into a clean container.

   Let's say you will need a quart of finish. I would pour out about a quarter of it into a separate container and then slowly stir in the colored finish as desired. I would then incorporate the rest of the finish.

   You'll find adding a tint like this will give you good control, and it will minimize the stirring you do thus minimizing bubbles in the finish.

   If you don't need a tint, just give the paint a few coats of the finish and be sure to sand in between coats

   Good luck.

   Peter

    

1. 
   buildthis | Mar 29, 2007 03:59am | #2

   I used Behr Interior Satin on top of a few coats of Kilz primer.  I did sand in between coats as well. 

    

   I would like it to wear as if they where kitchen cabinets that where painted.

   Any recommendations on brands or types of paint to use?

1. 
   peter28 | Mar 30, 2007 09:43pm | #3

   buildthiss,

   Use the sealer as just that, a sealer. Two coats at the most. Build the finish with your topcoat.

   Try Benjamin Moore paint as the topcoat. There are so many brands it seems everyone has a favorite. When I paint I usually use BM.

   There are others that are very expensive, like Schreuder. (Also known as fine paints of Europe) Some love it some hate it. I did my dining room in the Rembrant Red and the room glows. It comes in quarts and Euro gallons, which are a little smaller than a gallon and were $75. The thinner is $12 a litre. The great thing about the thinner is it's the same product used in the manufacturing process. A little goes a long way. Obviously , I'm talking about oil paints here. It comes in latex also.

   Good luck.

   Peter

1. 
   buildthis | Mar 31, 2007 03:27am | #4

   So when you refer to the "topcoat" you mean the paint, correct?  For the sealer you are refering to polyurethane or varnish, correct? 

   Also as far as paint type you are saying to use oil based??

1. 
   peter28 | Mar 31, 2007 03:56am | #5

   buildthis.

   The primer is the base or "sealer" in this case.

   Do one or two coats of primer at the most.

   Sand it smooth and then "topcoat" it with the paint. In this instance I was speaking of oil based paint.

   To give it extra scratch resistance you could consider varnish or urethane as a final topcoat.

   Sorry for any confusion.

   Peter

2. 
   buildthis | Mar 31, 2007 03:01pm | #6

   Thank you so much! 

3. 
   peter28 | Mar 31, 2007 05:43pm | #7

   You're welcome.

   Let me know how you do.

2. 
   cowtown | Apr 20, 2007 11:08am | #8

   painting MDF with latex paint has always been a PITA for me.

   For whatever reason, even if I use a shellac-based primer, the paint takes eons to cure. You can paint components and let them dry for a week or two, and then if you stack them together, the paint will bond. (ie stick together) real good (not real good when you pull the pieces apart though!!)

   Ergo, while I might spray the shellac base primer on individual pieces , (yu can roll it too, but the fumes are significant, and almost certainly flammableas the primary solvent is alcohol) latex painting is done on site. Simply moving the individual panels is a logistical nightmare/uncertainty etc and likely requires touch up anyway, better to paint after assembly.

   Automotive glazing putty is great for fast dry filling of fastener holes and if you have a big divot, you could always ramp up to bondo to fill the void quickly.

   just my perspective

   Eric

1. 
   buildthis | May 15, 2007 05:24am | #9

   So i started this project of the many I have going on.

   I decided to use Birch ply instead of MDF.  I purchased some of the Zinsser oil based primer as my base.  I sanded w/ 220, applied the primer w/ a china bristle brush however the primer left some nasty brush strokes.  Is there a way to prevent this?  Possibly thinning out the primer or using a conditioner like floetrol?  I dont know if floetrol can be used with an oil base paint or not.

   My other option would be to sand the primer down to get my smooth surface prior to applying my top coat.

   Your guidance is much appreciate.

    

    

    

1. 
   cowtown | May 16, 2007 10:16am | #10

   I have guidance to offer, but keep in mind I cannot see yer project from here.

   For what it's worth, I'd have gone with a shellac base primer instead of oil (which you used). Much more  certainty of drying and curing. Latex painted MDF can have one heck of a long cure time, and you certainly don't want to stack the pieces at all.....

   I've had latex painted MDF doors bond together even after weeks of curing.If you got to wrap em up, the high quality  Laminate flooring underlay is my wrap of choice.

    

   My preferred method of a roll-on finish application would have been a "whizzer" (TM)roller- approx 1" diameter rollers sold in most box-borg stores nowadays, and don't need cleaning, cause when yer done with yer paintitation session, you just drop the roller into the quart or gallon and fish it out when you get round to yer next session. Zero clean up. You could clean it if yu wished, but it would cost you damn near three as much in H20 and time as the puppies are worth. Ergo, yu don't clean em...

   My actual most common methodology of finish is airless spray- I ain't ramped up to the air-assisted airless stuff yet, but there's such a learning curve associated with spray  methodology, I gotta say it ain't for the easily frustrated, or the economically challenged.  I say this because it was costly to get me to the point where it was cost-effective. The basic cost ran around 1.8k$ but I'm mostly spraying post-catalyzed finishes with that methodology. And I'm equipped with the air filtering and the rest of the methodology to reduce explosion hazards etc.

   I use pressure pots to spray precatalized clear laquer on my drawer boxes, and I was fortunate to pick them up at garage sales for under 100 bucks a pop. Even then, replacing hoses, tips etc ain't exactly a "casual" expense

   So as far as sanding off the brush marks goes, With the primer, yer wood is essentially sealed, so you can use yer random orbital sander with maybe 180 grit to sand it flat. I dunno if you ever tried wet sanding before, but I've done it on laquer with a ROS and it's quite effective at "levelling", even though it makes a tad of a mess. I betcha that if you do it on yer oil base primer, you'll find that without the water, you'll get globs of build-up on the sandpaper, It is a methodology that is quite effective at levelling surfaces.

    

   If you do encounter "sand through to bare wood " areas, the water is gonna maybe raise the grain, but you could spot touch em up with a spray can of shellac based primer, and then hand sand em agin. Then you should be good to go.

    

   When you get to sanding between coats, get to the 320 grit paper, again wet sanding, if yer finish is reasonably good, hand sanding would be OK in general in my opinion.

    

   I really  worry about  yer continuing on with the brush methodology, it's gonna keep giving you lines-big or small depends on yer hand technique.

   If yer gonna continue with the brush, keep in mind that there is this old methodology whereby you work the paint in with the brush, but you finish the coat by "tipping off" wherein only the fine tips of the brush hairs are lightly stroked over the paint to achieve a finer finish. But on a flat panel yer still gonna have brush strokes evident-either more or less.

   Also keep in mind that there are additives for Latex finishes such as Floetrol which aid in surface levelling and extend the dry time If yer in a dry climate, these can help get a consistent finish. FHB or FWW did an article on paint additives a few years ago, but any competent paint supplier should be able to answer the question if you ask "do I need any additives in this locale."

    

   If yer gonna investigate them whizzer type teeny-tiny rollers, they come in foam (which I've never liked) and in cloth rollers, much cheaper to buy them in 10 packs.....believe me once you start using them, you'll be hooked and perhaps find like me that you might go 5 years or more before you get around to using one of them big rollers. No clean up, they is so cheap that you just leave the used roller in the quart or gallon or 5 gallon pail for the next coat.

   99% of the time, perhaps with a tad of expirementation, I betcha them whizzers and appropriate "latex" paint technology will provide a suitable, easily applied, and yep I gotta say it- an environmentally friendly finish. Cheap and effective technology, no doubt about it.

   As an added note, I was into my Finish supplier yesterday, and the good Lord willin and the creek don't rise, my next kitchen is gonna be finished with entirely non-solvent based finishes. That will be another learing curve to adjust to.

    

   I dunno if I helped.

    

   Eric in Cowtown

    

    

    

    

    

    

1. 
   buildthis | May 16, 2007 08:02pm | #11

   I picked up some 6" Mohair rollers from a local Benjamin Moore store the other.  Went home and tested on my test board.

   Although I sanded the oil based primer down I still had some brush marks but hey, it was a test board.

   I wanted to test the Mohair roller so I mixed a little of the floetrol w/ my water based latex topcoat and it appeared to be a pretty smooth finish except for a very slight shadow ripple effect.

   I will try the wet sand method between coats to see if I can get a smoother surface.

    

   I also purchased some Penotrol to add to the oil based primer to help it flow a bit better.