Replies

1. 
   webby | Sep 21, 2008 01:01am | #1

   bump.

   Webby 

    

2. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Sep 21, 2008 06:29pm | #2

   I don't like latex paint on furniture either.  I'd use oil-based paint if you can still get it where you live.  I'd brush it on rather than using a spray can.   The spray can makes a very thin coat.  There's no reason to top-coat the paint with varnish.

3. 
   BG | Sep 21, 2008 06:36pm | #3

   Webby,

   Their was a great article/instructions in FWW a few/couple of years ago that I have been following since: two or three prime coats till surface is perfect...then a couple of finish coats. It works especially well on poplar.

1. 
   webby | Sep 22, 2008 02:33am | #4

   Thanks  for the info I will make some test samples. Before I start.Webby 

    

1. 
   dkellernc | Sep 22, 2008 03:02am | #5

   Webby - I'd always used oil enamel and sometimes high-gloss latex (which does actually harden very well - the satin stuff doesn't) on my painted projects.  Then a friend that has an art background suggested using acrylic paints designed for artists.  Boy was she right - I used Liquitex brand, with the glazing medium (it's a thinner).  It was a joy to work with compared to the acrylic latex house paint I'd used previously, and the cured paint was rock-hard.

   It's too expensive to use to paint a house, but for a small piece of furniture, I consider it ideal.

1. 
   webby | Sep 22, 2008 09:55pm | #6

   Thanks,  I will look at the acrylic  paints. 

   To tell the truth, I am starting to not care what I do with it. This is one of those projects that just seeems to fight you every step of the way.

   I used a new mitre gauge and my tennons were crappy I milled tennons today for the top which has breadboard ends and the breadboards angle toward the floor.

   one of those deals where you say "how did that happen, 'cause it didn't last time I made the breadboards.

   Really I think the bottom line is I am having growing pains. I am pushing the limits of my little make shift workshop.

   Sorry, just venting a bit.

   Webby 

    

   Edited 9/22/2008 2:56 pm ET by webby

1. 
   dkellernc | Sep 22, 2008 10:19pm | #7

   No need to apologize - I was just as frustrated the first time I tried to make a frame-and-panel door with mortise chisels and tenon saws.  It was really easy the Normite way - not so easy when I had to depend on my eye and hand coordination.

   You can fix the breadboard ends, by the way.  If the tenons are angled but the mortise in the end is straight, pare away the projecting side of the tenon (either with a dado stack, skew block plane, or moving fillister - whatever your preference), and glue a few scraps to the lean side, then re-cut that side.  It doesn't result in a nice, pretty joint, but it's something no one will ever see unless they take the project apart.  (And yeah, I've done this on more occasions than I care to think about...)

2. 
   webby | Sep 22, 2008 11:23pm | #8

   I cut the tennons with a router and straightedge clamp because of the size of the top.

   That seemed to go okay, cut them a little strong and planed/pared them for a snug fit.

   I think the tennon is more or less square. I am thinking my problem came from not having a jointer and not noticing that the long grain of the breadbaord blank was not square.

   I cut the mortise in the end with a spiral bit in the routertable. Perhaps my mortise is not square in the breadboard end.

   I used my Osbourne mitre gauge for the first time to cut tennons on the aprons in conjunction with thTsaw. While hte mitregauge can be adjusted to fit the slot snugly my slot is not machined well and when the mitre gauge is snug, it wont travel all the way through. I think my real problem was cutting the tennons with a dado. Pushing thru equals a lot of resistance which rocked my mitre gauge. For the long aprons I switched to my regular blade and nibbled. Got better results.

   What is working in my favor is the antique pine which used to be paneling. It is not perfect and is lendingitself to peices with an antique look.

   I would post more pics but don't have a digital camera.

   Thanks for relating your experiences. I am looking forward to getting some nice planes and chisels for more handwork.Webby 

    

3. 
   dkellernc | Sep 23, 2008 04:33pm | #9

   Webby - If you cut the mortise in a router table, I think it's relatively safe to assume that the side of the breadboard end was held flush to the fence when it was run through.  If that's the case, the edge may not be square to the surfaces of the end, but the slot would be parallel.  What that should lead to is a breadboard end that's parallel to the tabel top surface, but with a gap that won't close on either the bottom or the top.  If that's the case, one pass of the breadboard end over the jointer with the fence at 90 degrees will solve the problem.

   If that's not the case and your tenons are truly parallel to the table surface, then your mortise may not be cut square into the breadboard end, in which case you'd have to re-make them.

   It's always a dilemma as to whether to fix small problems with a project.  In my case, I tend to fix ones that don't result in such a disaster that the project gets cut up for scrap, since every time I pass by the project in the future, I'll be questioning why I didn't fix so and so problem...

4. 
   webby | Sep 23, 2008 07:51pm | #10

   Thanks, I have at present decided to live with it. What I did was to flip the end over making the botttom the top. It minimized the sagged look and I have drilled the bottom for dowels. and elongated my holes.

   Thanks for the info. You have been very generous with you time. I have a makeshift shop and that is a lot of it. I am really concentrating on my procedures getting consistent results, sometimes I do and sometimes I dont.

   I was inspired by the table in the pic. but I also love the look of a wellworn antique. I was given about 600 board feet of pine paneling much of it very clear wich has the wonderful aged look of old pine. I am building peices that have a graceful but rural or southern look to them.

   So if things don't line up perfectly that is working for me. I will have to get a camera so I can take some pics and submit them here for critique.

   One thing I have noticed is that the peices are not of consistent thickness. one side of a peice may read .78 with my caliper the other side may read .75 this wood is old so it could be shrinkage.

   I look forward to getting some larger milling machines. At present I am without a jointer or planer. So I have to choose stock carefully.

   Thanks for your thoughts.Webby 

    

5. 
   dkellernc | Sep 24, 2008 07:48pm | #11

   "One thing I have noticed is that the peices are not of consistent thickness. one side of a peice may read .78 with my caliper the other side may read .75 this wood is old so it could be shrinkage."

   Hmm - Hope you're joking about that.  30 thousandths of an inch is a big concern in machining - as in metal.  Piston rings that are undersized by that much will cause a massive loss in compression in a V-8 engine.

   When it comes to woodworking, however, that's a trivial bit of "off".  Doubt many of us would tolerate that much in a tenon shoulder, but that's an adjustment-to-fit thing.

   One thing that's worth thinking about is that in my opinion, a home woodworker should NOT be trying to reproduce the ways of working of a furniture factory.  In such a business, consistently sized parts and joints are critical so that they are interchangeable.  But for handbuilt, one or maybe a few-off pieces, trying to do things this way is going to lead to a lot of frustration.  It takes only a second or two to  pencil mark a rail's tenons with #1, #2, etc... and the corresponding mortises in the legs of a table.  Then, after rough-milling your joints, you go back and adjust each joint for a tight fit with a chisel and shoulder plane.  It matters not that #2 tenon is horribly gappy when inserted in mortise #1 - it matters that tenon #2 fits in mortise #2.

   I've been building things out of wood for 30 years, and it took me a long, long time to realize that the reason I was having to use a random orbit sander and 150 grit paper to get a table top even, or the rails and stiles of a panel door to sit flush, was my failure to understand fitting each joint together as a unit, not as interchangeable parts.

6. 
   webby | Sep 25, 2008 02:58am | #12

   Thanks for your kind advice.

   I was striving for consistency and repeatability only to make more out of the limited time I have for woodworking.

   I do just as you describe for the most part. Mark/Orient and fine tune.

   As for the wood thickness, In making the top for my table I just had to look a little bit to find similar thickness of wood to eliminate a lot of sanding.

   I also mentioned the different thickness across the piece because of shrinkage due to grain orientation. I didn't however examine many pieces or investigate this.

   Thanks so much for the advice.Webby 

    

4. 
   furndr | Sep 25, 2008 03:07pm | #13

   I use spray equipment with finishes from M.L. Campbell. I'd use their black vinyl acrylic for the base and their Magnamax  clear to top-coat over the vinyl and for the top. It's great stuff and very durable and water-resistant. However it's probably impractical for a small project unless yo think you will have other uses for in in the not too distant future. 

   For your project black milk paint would be perfect for the base and then you could clear-coat over the base and spray the top with clear satin finish made by Krylon. (It's available at Walmart and other places.) Krylon sprays nicely, dries fast and can be rubbed out between coats without clogging your abrasive.

   Good Luck!

   Furndr

5. 
   Woodmaster1776 | Sep 26, 2008 06:53pm | #14

   Milk Paint might be an option--it's especially effective with period inspired pieces. I've used it on some pieces and like the results, using the milk paint followed by boiled linseed oil and then top coated with either wipe on poly or sprayed pre-cat lacquer. The attached photo is one of the pieces finished that way (picture worth a lot of words and all that). This is Michael Dunbar's Colonial Cupboard from FWW #151 where he references using milk paint. Mike also has a more detailed article on milk paint in FWW #136 and The Old Fashioned Milk Paint Co. includes the info with their orders.

   I've ordered from these folks and find their service to be excellent.
   http://www.milkpaint.com/
   Also received excellent e-mail support when a question as to product and procedure came up.

   Good luck with your project--it will be a fine looking piece.

   Bob

   
1. 
   webby | Sep 26, 2008 10:16pm | #15

   Thanks I am becoming more interested  in the milk paint option but have never used it before.

   Do you sand between coats?

   Also what does the boiled linseed oil do for the finish?

   That is a nice piece.

   Might be my next project. I will have to see if I have those FWW issues.

   ThanksWebby 

    

1. 
   Woodmaster1776 | Sep 27, 2008 01:02am | #16

   Thanks for the kind words about the Colonial Cupboard.A light sanding between coats is okay; it only takes 2 coats to do the job and it dries so fast you can apply the 2nd coat in about an hour or so. The oil deepens and makes the color much richer--so the same paint color is like having 2 color options. Also milk paint gets down into the wood a bit more than modern paints which tend to lay on the surface. But milk paint will also wear away which can give a nice used look--but the poly or lacquer topcoat prevents this and preserve the original color. Not sure I'd topcoat it without oil first, although I haven't tried that.The articles are available online if you happen to have an online subscription:
   http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011151064.pdf
   http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011136064.pdfI'd suggest reading the article or getting a similar one from the Old Fashioned Milk Paint Co. before starting. Milk Paint is very scary at first because it's so different. But after you complete a project you realize how simple and nearly foolproof it really is.Best of luck with your table.Bob

1. 
   webby | Sep 27, 2008 04:39am | #17

   Thanks. As of now, I am definitely thinking milk paint.Webby 

    

2. 
   webby | Sep 27, 2008 05:00pm | #18

   I looked at milkpaint.com and am impressed. My question is with a poplar base to the table do you think the extra bond addative would be necessary? They said to use it woith woods such as maple or birch.Webby 

    

1. 
   webby | Sep 28, 2008 04:27am | #19

   Update. You can see the unfinished table in the Hall table under construction thread.Webby 

    

2. 
   Woodmaster1776 | Sep 29, 2008 05:29pm | #21

   I had the same question and e-mailed them. Got a very fast response saying the extra bond wasn't necessary with new unfinished poplar--which is what I used on the red cabinet. After a couple of years in our oldest son's home in the humid climate of Birmingham, AL it's holding up well.Bob

3. 
   webby | Sep 29, 2008 04:08am | #20

   With regard to your cupboard, I would like to acheive the same finish. A smooth almost satiny finish. I would appreciate it if you give me some tips on that.

   I read an article from Michael Dunbar at milkpaint.com he mentioned straining the paint, and also rubbing with a grey scotch brite. Then coating with the oil. Is this similar to your schedule of finish?

   Webby 

    

   Edited 9/28/2008 9:11 pm ET by webby

1. 
   Woodmaster1776 | Sep 29, 2008 05:47pm | #22

   Yes, that's the process I used. Mike Dunbar is a great teacher and I understand that's the kind of finish he uses on his Windsor chairs at The Windsor Chair Institute, so he has lots of experience with the process. Milk Paint tends to be a bit grainy--which can be part of its charm--and straining reduces a lot of this effect. I finished another Colonial Cupboard in dark green (it was only dark after applying the oil) without straining and got more texture in the final product. (The Green Cupboard was built from Pine which didn't finish quite so nicely as the Poplar.) Of course the topcoat goes over either way of doing it and provides the final smoother finish while allowing a bit of texture to show through.Sounds like you're gonna have a great looking project when finished.Bob

   
2. 
   webby | Sep 29, 2008 11:17pm | #24

   Thanks so much for all your help and advice. Your cupboards are beautiful.

   You saved me from ordering the uneccessary extra bond.

   Webby 

    

   Edited 9/29/2008 4:26 pm ET by webby

6. 
   honda | Sep 29, 2008 05:50pm | #23

   webby
   Try General Finishes water based Enduro acrylic. They tell me they can match Ben Moore colors, very easy to spray.