Any advice on refinishing solid oak, stained kitchen cabinets with a paint? We have an old farm house, a low budget and a way too dark kitchen, but very well built 20 year old custom, solid cabinets. I am a builder and remodeler, and have built cabinets in my shop in the past. Unfortunately, anything that is not hand-rubbed oil or clear finish like poly or varnish is beyond my spere of knowledge.
Help!
Replies
I tackled this very project some years ago and it came out quite well, at least until we got tired of the painted cabinets and did an entire kitchen remodel. Went to maple cabintes.
I would start with a trip to your paint dealer (a real one, not HD) and talk with them. They can recommend the right preparation, primer and top coat. We used an oil based enamel from Sherwin Williams on ours. Brushed all the frames and sprayed the doors with a Wagner power sprayer. It worked quite well. I set up an outdoor "room" using plastic sheet. A big problem was where to put the finished but still wet doors to dry as I moved to the next one as I had about 30 to do.
We prepped by sanding and cleaning with a strong solution of TSP and allowed to dry thoroughly. I don't recall a primer but we probably did.
One thing about the painted oak that always bothered me was the porous grain always showed so you might want to consider filling the grain.
the grain on oak was my first thought as well. it might not look all that good painted.
thanks fo rthe reply and advice. The Wagner painter did a good job for you?? Always have doubts about tools for the homeowner market, but can not justify big bucks for spray equipment I will use only rarely.
Good advice, re HD...never go there unless it is Sunday, and they are the only game in town.
Hi Woodman,
Was the Wagner sprayer the airless version or the HVLP gun that they offer?
Mike D
I used an airless Wagner power sprayer and it did a fine job. It was brand new and this was its first job. Be sure to have some extra tips as these control the spray and they can wear out when spraying heavy coatings. I also sprayed lightly and several coats.Another option that I used on some of my cabinets was to paint the frames black and built new maple doors and drawer fronts. This gives the whole cabinet an upgraded look but at a fraction of the cost. You could also get a paint matched to the wood finish of your choice.What I found after paining our kitchen cabinets was that the kitchen still looked dated. The counter top was still the same and had some wear. The floor was the same way. Even the style of the cabinet doors was out of date. That is why we kept the paint for about two years before tearing it all out and doing the whole new remodel.Hope this helps.
Hi Ken ,
You have been given some good advice already, you also could use a chemical stripper and remove the old finish and use a white wash or other semi opaque type of pigmented color as opposed to a solid paint .
Refinishing cabinets is a big nasty hard time consuming job . The refinishers usually charge maybe 3 times the cost of finishing new cabinets .
As far as painting Oak cabinets , it can certainly be done , and as has been said the grainy look may not be desirable with a solid body paint . Lastly imo only a professional painter not a house painter only but someone experienced in millwork and stairwells and cabinetry should do the job . Hire a pro for best results , sorry to burst your bubble on this one but I have had several beautiful sets of my cabinets all but ruined by painters that really had no business painting cabinets .
There is a huge difference in painting a house or a room or a wall as opposed to a cabinets . Just for kicks get a few estimimates from pros and talk to the local real paint stores for their opinions .
best of luck dusty
I'd agree with just about all the posters so far. It seems that you need to decide which direction you want to take the new finish -
A) strip off everything and do a natural oak finish
B) do a "pickled" finish with distressing
Either way it's a serious project. Dusty is right - get a professional to bid on it. Even if you decide to do it yourself you'll have learned a few things.
DR
Hello David ,
I don't know about you but as I said so called painters have really ruined several of my kitchens . I only offer lacquer type finishes and never contract for paint . I'll do my best to refer the clients to a qualified painter but never never get in the middle financially .I've learned my lessons on that one . How do you handle painted jobs?
regards dusty
Hi Dusty,About half the kitchens we do are painted one way or another. (The others have clear topcoats) Some are brushed and distressed, most are sprayed. We commonly use water-borne colored base coats and a clear water-borne topcoat. I could go into details if you're interested, but there are 3 crucial factors involved:1. We have a well-equipped spray room and an accompanying drying room
2. We have a full-time finisher. This is all he does, 5 days a week.
3. We use a line of Italian finishes that is excellent, but probably the product names mean nothing to anyone in the US.And, it's an ongoing process of learning. I know of very high-end manufacturers like Smallbone of the UK who deliver cabinets with only the base-coat done, and do all the finish painting in the client's home. It's a different approach than we use, but each has its advantages.Tell me if you want technical details about something more specific.regards,
DR(you can see a few examples at http://www.touchwood.co.il)
Edited 11/13/2006 9:46 am by ring
DR ,
I was just curious if you took on the painting yourself .
It sounds like the products you use may be easier to control then standard paints and such .
with your facility and a full time professional finisher and crew you can easily maintain controllability of the job .
My finishes are mostly clear some are stained .
thanks D ,
dusty
Let me get this straight: that project was built in Israel and installed in New York City?
that project was built in Israel and installed in New York City?
The job featured in the short slide show, yes, absolutely.
DR
Wowza! That's very impressive work, but I'm curious as to why that company contracted you all the way from Israel instead of getting a company closer to tour region?
Mumda,
The "door" to this contract was opened through personal acquaintances. However, after the initial surprise (mine as well as yours) it's not at all unreasonable. The "global marketplace" is a phrase that one hears often, but this was a first-hand lesson in how it has become a reality. After all, if the job had been produced in Baltimore and installed in NYC you wouldn't have been surprised. What's the difference, the shipping time? I'm not trying to belittle the logistical challenges that were involved; I could write a manual on the 6 months of work I put into it. But it all comes down to a simple bottom line - we offered them complex custom work on a large scale at a price that beat the American bids by about 15%. Once the company was convinced that we were capable of producing it, why should they care if it came from the moon? best,
DR
You did excellent work indeed. I think you should be very proud of that accomplishment."...bottom line - we offered them complex custom work on a large scale at a price that beat the American bids by about 15%. Once the company was convinced that we were capable of producing it, why should they care if it came from the moon?"I guess that "bottom line" you're speaking of is disconcerting me, no fault of yours. I put blame on our Government and health care system for forcing us domestic shops to charge so much to survive that it is now 15% cheaper to buy such a huge project all the way from Israel. I expect that soon China will be taking such work from us (and you) at 60% cheaper rates.Sorry to hijack the original post.
You're right about China...the only thing that keeps it from happening (for now) is that custom work requires an extremely high level of communication, and a common language that goes way beyond just understanding English. For this project I was in daily phone and e-mail contact with the architect over many months. Plus the fact that the job has to be large enough to allow all the logistical expenses. Small to mid-size projects will always be more worthwhile to order close to home.DR
first off, you gotta take off yer doors.
Repainting the interior of cabinets aint particularly duanting, provided yer cabinet walls is clean of grease. A wipe down with liquid sandpaper does this.
Painting them ain''t a chore... you use a "high adherance primer" from benjamin moore (TINTED if you wish) a a 1" roller (trade name is 'whizzer) which will allow you to roll into corners. Not only of walls and cielings, but raised panel doors. If yer in the wood butchery buziness and ain't used one of these before, well that advice is worth it's weight in hinges. Wanna try it out- truck off to the local door mfgr and buy a couple of reject doors and paint em up with this puppy.
Learned that trick from painters.
Funny, none of the painting experts whom offered advice in other replies suggested that....maybe they was queered by the fact that this is a kitchen. To be sure, there is a risk, cuase of the grease and oils of the past years seeping into the finish and underlying wood. Nobody in their right mind can gaurantee a job like this.
Paint on oak- while I know some folks have declared that anatheme, to me it seems funky nice. Hey, head off to home despot and look at some of their white prehung doors, you will see oak grain texture peaking out from under it--looks good to me. So much for the experts.
But if yer gonna paint oak doors, you gotta make sure they are clean, clean, clean, and kitchen doors is notorious for having an accumulation of grease and oils on em. Liquid sandpaper applied diligently, to be sure, and if a door is really trashed, do it twice just for fun eh, and it don't hurt to scuff things up fairly good with some sandpaper to give the paint some tooth to adhere to.....
and primer.
Benjamin moore "fresh-start" primer is what they call a high-adherence primer. Best you can get.
While yer there, ask if a shellac based primer might be better/(not sure of the answer to that question yet)
Likely yer cabinets is laquer or oil base finish. Cleaned with liquid sandpaper, primed with a high adherence primer (fresh-start from Benjamin more) and then painted, that's about the best this po-boy can recommend.
But hey, print out this email and take it to a reputabile paint dealer and see if they can better my suggestions.
While yer there, ask if a shellac based primer might be better(not sure of the answer to that question yet)
but as you say, you've finished some stuff before, so at least you got some knowledge of what can or may go wrong.
Hope that helps
Eric in Cowtown
"you use a "high adherance primer" from benjamin moore...." Eric, do you have any idea what their primer is?? Is it different from, say, a shellac-type primer such as Zinsser's B-I-N??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Benjamin moore calls it "fresh start"- it's latex. It's quite different from shellac based primers.Eric
Thanks, Eric. I went to their web site yesterday trying to figure out which product it was, but with no luck. I'll go back today, check it out, as I have some challenging priming to do soon.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG, I have posted this before but will again. We had our kitchen painted almost 10 years ago now (ack!). It was dark stained wood. Had it painted basically white. The painter washed everything, of course. Scuffed probably. Then used a primer he said was the best (and expensive) called XIM. I promise you, this paint is ON those cupboards--has worn VERY well. Used an oil base eggshell for the topcoats applied with a very fine foam brush. It looks sprayed.
We have floor to ceiling pantry doors on one wall so there is a LOT of plain surface (it would be like a wall).Gretchen
Thanks, Gretchen, it shows up with Google so I can check into it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It may not be any different--who knows!!--, but this guy used it, swore by it and with all the rest of the prep, it has been excellent.Gretchen
The biggest problem with painting oak is hiding the grain. According to my painter buddy and a really good finish guy I know, you need to apply a filler to the oak and sand it smooth before you paint. Otherwise, that grain will telegraph through your paint job.
Thanks for all the advice. Believe me, I have no illusions about the nature of this project. I was a remodeling contractor and now manage new home projects. No $$ in the budget now for 15K in kitchen materials, but with a 100+ year old home on a small farm, we should be able to play the "country kitchen look" card, and with new countertops be good for a while...at least different for a while.
Sounds like the bottom line is...clean, clean, clean, fill, fill, sand, seal,seal seal. then either spray or not, depending on equipment available. figur I got it?
yep, obviously a quick learner. ;-)
Ken,
I read your question and the rest of the thread. There is woodworking and there is religion. My religion is based on the premise that kitchen cabinets should never be painted. Brighten the kitchen with big new lights, a beautiful light new floor, great bright light countertops, bright door and drawer handles -- and just refinish the cabinets.
But I have learned that there are more important facets to maintaining a happy life than that. Ask your wife what she would like, and do what she sayw.
SWMBO rules!
Enjoy,
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Couple of years ago, wife and I faced almost the exact same situation. Decided to replace the outdated vinyl tile in the kitchen with ceramic tile. After stripping all the old tile, and beginning to lay out the ceramic to decide on pattern, we realized how dark the old cabinets were, and how bad they looked with the new tile. After much discussion as to what to do, since new cabinets were not in the budget at that time, we decided to paint the existing ones, as a "temporary" measure. I was hesitant to do this, but finally decided if it looked bad, we were no worse off than we already were, so I plunged ahead.
I removed all the doors, sanded the carcasses thoroughly, wiped down with, I can't remember, but think it was TSP, and then put two coats of KILZ primer. Then painted brushes, two coats of semi-gloss latex. As for the doors, they got a good sanding, wipe down, and then sprayed with KILZ primer, and then two spray coats of the paint. I used a Wagner airless sprayer, and did it in my garage, in a "booth" made with plastic drop cloths hung from the ceiling.
It turned out so great, that we have decided to postpone building new cabinets, since the old ones look so good. I am going to re-do the countertops, since they show wear. Originally, we left them, since the plan was to build new cabinets in just a few months, but since we like the old ones now, will finish the "remodel" sometime after the holidays.
Hope this helps.
Your thinking is ours in a nutshell. I manage projects for a developer, and have access to very reasonable "at cost" subs and material...does not make my budget any bigger. I have 20+ years of "hands-on" carpentry..still don't change the budget. The ceramic floors are tired, but OK. The cabinets were custom made when they were installed 20 years ago...nothing wrong with the carcasses or doors..hardware needs help. Countertops gotta go, but no granite in this budget and I still have not found a way to buy solid surfacing material unless I am a licensed fabricator.
So......Replace a few cracked tile. re-grout and clean up. paint the cabinets for a "country look" that goes with the old farmhouse, the 7 horses, goats and chickens, figure out something creative for the counters, or just do laminate again.
Seems like the best shot, plus we both work on stuff like this like people possessed....God Bless my wife!!
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