Replies

1. 
   [email protected] | Jan 03, 2007 06:16am | #1

   I've seen that one, and it seems well thought out.  Rockler sells a kit that utilizes 80/20 t-slot extrusions, they have downloadable plans for $4.  It was originally in one of the magazines, and was in a "shops and tools" kind of special issue about a year ago.  Sorry I can't remember which magazine. 

   I'm currently acquiring the pieces parts to make one similar to the Rockler design, but with a few improvements.  Hopefully I'll have time to finish it up this next summer. 

1. 
   dougmeyer | Jan 03, 2007 05:08pm | #2

   I asked in passing about this idea in the Rough Cut Plywood thread I started and I did not get many replies on this type of thing. So I am interested in what you find out. This was one of the ideas I had for rough cuts.

   Doug Meyer.

1. 
   [email protected] | Jan 03, 2007 06:11pm | #3

   Built with tight enough tolerances, it should be capable of doing final cuts. 

   I've got the linear motion bearings from 80/20, and enough of the extrusion to build a rigid frame.  I plan to use a motor designed for an older Craftsman 8-1/4 saw, and have an 80 tooth carbide blade, so the cuts should be pretty clean. 

   Now all I have to do is find the time to put it all together.

2. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jan 08, 2007 07:27am | #4

   J-n-F, I too think that for senior woodworkers a panel saw is great. No more cutting sections off at the tail gate of my 150 pick up with a CS or taking up so much shop space with saw horses and clamping a straight edge to cut it up with a CS. Yes I have been through the pains of "the EZ system" and the rabid fools who spend $700+ for the festool rails/saw/dc.

   I need to know if the Rockler stuff is worth the pain to size the hard wood (which I have bag fulls of in Tn. ) buy the hardware and fit up with a CS(I have 7  new and old cs-none bad, all good users) or do I spend $1200 for a commercial unit and have done with it. I would prefer a solid good running structure that I could hang one of my saws on but there is no need for routers or jig saws etc.

   If you get a good lead on any of these please let us know or E mail me. Thanks, Paddy

   Edited 1/7/2007 11:35 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT

1. 
   MatthewSchenker | Jan 13, 2007 09:35pm | #8

   PADDYHAT,
   You wrote this:
   "Yes I have been through the pains of 'the EZ system' and the rabid fools who spend $700+ for the festool rails/saw/dc."I don't know why you call Festool users "rabid fools." Have you used Festools tools at all? How have you arrived at this assessment?

   Edited 1/13/2007 1:36 pm ET by MatthewSchenker

1. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jan 14, 2007 06:02am | #9

   Matt, here's the story;

   I have used the tools, they are of very fine quality.

   They are badly over priced.

   They are designed to force you into a chain of purchasing only their blades,supplies etc. rather than industry standard items.

   They would duplicate all of my  many high quality tools, a pure waste of money.

   I have a very strong 3hp DC cyclone and two air cleaners, I don't need to drag around a vac every time I pick up a dusty bench tool as I have 15' light hoses bungeed off the over head that I can use in almost 80% of my 1,200 ' shop-even outside-   basicaly, I don't have a dust problem.

   The last decision factor is me. I am 65 this year, I don't dance so fast any more and refuse to mule around heavy sheet goods on a horizontal grid/horses/table or floor. If I wanted that I would have used my straight edges as usual or the EZ rails (but they can't support a left blade CS, which I prefer after making sawdust for 40+years). I want a panel saw that I can load from my panel cart that I load off the tail gate of my F-150, I never pick it up , just tip and roll.

   Finally the rabid and dedicated followers of festool never let a post go by that disagrees with the festool marketing promise. It is like they have been prodded with a hot iron and they are relentless(as this new post of yours demonstrates). I have been told to retire all of my current tools in favor of festool . Hah, discard thousands of dollars of professional power tools, perhaps turning my right tilt Unisaw with a 50" Unifence into a planter would be satisfactory, then I would have to forgo the dado blade and live by router alone as was strongly suggested to me, I was informed that my dust control would improve in a quantum sense, I doubt as my system is well engineered and equiped (it's not the Craftsman two bagger and a trash can that I used in an old garage shop), it's not in need of replacement.

   It is the arrogant persistance of the festool belivers that grates on most folks, you know that other people have different opinions and you WILL have to live with that if you like it or not.  I have a large collection of Bed rock planes and some folks here truly believe that the old Baily pattern IS a better plane. You don't see me or any others jumping all over their judgement like the festoolers do in the CS discussions. A CS and a straight edge, the EZ system, a TS or RAS or festool, they all work for someone, just be happy with yours.

   All the best, Paddy 

   Edited 1/13/2007 10:20 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT

1. 
   [email protected] | Jan 14, 2007 07:32am | #10

   Paddy, I agree with your take on the FesFool Devotees.  I was once told that the most devoted followers of any religion are the converts, and experience has shown me that it is a true statement.  And, if I had spent that much money on anything, I would be constantly touting it as the greatest thing  ever.  Well maybe not, I don't interject that the WoodRat is the best, most versatile, easily understood joint maker very often at all. 

   I share your thoughts on the panel saw, and intend to put mine together this spring.  The one that Rockler has using 80/20 extrusions is pretty slick and should be accurate.  I had designed mine and started buying the pieces about a year before I saw the kit that Rockler has.  I've been delayed in getting it put together by a move, and the related home improvements. 

   The Rockler kit should be easy to construct, and once trued up very accurate.  The only improvement, I would make, and I'm not sure it is necessary is to use the linear guides that 80/20 makes to connect the carriage to the frame.   There shouldn't be much slop in their set up, but I'd rather eliminate as much as I can.  If you watch on ebay the guides come up occasionally for about half what 80/20 wants for them. 

2. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jan 14, 2007 08:00am | #11

   J & F, thanks for the so kind post, does 80-20 have a web site or phone # I would like to know more. I too am ham strung with a move-the sale of the old place in NY and the shop build in East Tn. in the new place. Peace brother, Paddy

3. 
   milanuk | Jan 14, 2007 09:00am | #12

   http://www.8020.net/First place I really heard of them was when I was browsing around CNCZone.com (looking at some of the DIY CNC router plans). I hadn't realized the Rockler plans use 80-20 pieces, so I had to go to Rocklers and see. Yep!

4. 
   [email protected] | Jan 14, 2007 08:03pm | #13

   They have the normal website, and a store on ebay, "8020 Inc Garage Sale", that sells over-runs, off-cuts, mis-cuts, and off dimension parts.  You can get a substantial discount by shopping wisely there.  I got the extrusions for the panel saw I'm going to build, for about fifty percent off list, because the two center holes are 0.007 out of spec for the center to center distance.  Since I am going to use parts all made from the same extrusion, with drilled and counter bored holes for butt joints, it won't effect anything I'm doing.  Same kind of thing for the linear motion guides.  Two out of six of the holes are 0.012 out of spec.  I'm building a one off machine, so I can drill to match them without compromising anything.  I bought some gussets for the 25-millimeter series that are out of spec on the hole placement.  A quick check confirmed that they are in spec for the 1-inch series I am using. 

   The 80/20 is neat stuff.  I use it quite a bit for the various jigs-n-fixtures I design.  I have a router table fence made from a piece of 2040 extrusion from the "10" series, which is based on whole inches.  At 2-inches wide, with 2 t-slots and 4-inches tall with 4 t-slots, and a pair of roughly 1-1/2-inch holes in the middle, all you have to do is make a cutout in the middle for clearance and a dust pickup, then plumb a vacuum hose to the end. I have a couple of different faces I hook to it depending on the bit I'm using.  I have used the 1040, 1 X 4-inch as faces on commercial fences, and am planning on replacing one face of my table saw fence with a piece of 1040, as soon as a long enough piece shows up on ebay.  

5. 
   MatthewSchenker | Jan 14, 2007 08:17pm | #14

   PADDYHAT,
   Well, yes, it's your opinion about Festool owners. Of course, Festool owners are no more emphatic about their tools than people who like other tools. How many times have I heard Grizzly fans go on and on about how wonderful that company is?Still, I don't see why you need to insult Festool owners. How can you say that the tools are overpriced if you don't own any of them? How can you call owners "fools" if you haven't actually used the tools?You call Festool owners "relentless." But it was you who, unprovoked, insulted Festool owners. Festool wasn't even part of the discussion until that point!Who told you to "retire all of my current tools in favor of Festool"? If someone actually said that, he or she was out of line.For my part, I have emphasized the quality and engineering of Festool tools because they are excellent. But I also emphasize other brands that I really like, and I do so with the same energy as my Festool comments. Just take a look at my recent review of the Ridgid bench-top table saw, or several Incra products.How about this: let's discuss what we think of the tools, without generalizing about the people who own the tools?

   Edited 1/15/2007 2:16 pm ET by MatthewSchenker

6. 
   Festool4 | Jan 15, 2007 09:04pm | #15

   I would have to agree...

   Of course, what would you expect from:

   Festool4

7. 
   Rich14 | Jan 15, 2007 09:25pm | #16

   Matthew,

   Apparently your forced vacation from this place had no effect on you at all. Paddy's reference to Festool "advocates" who relentlessly pursue anyone who says anything in the slightest way negative about Festool was directly about you.

   "Relentless pursuit" is an apt description of your style here. And it seems you are taking up right where you left off. Please don't continue this kind of thing.

   Relentless pursuit of any point of view, of any subject makes this place a less pleasurable spot to visit. You don't always have to have the last word. You don't have to beat the discussion into the ground every time you enter a thread.

   This place really isn't about "winning" arguments. Although I fully expect that you will now let me know how wrong I am.

   Rich

8. 
   MatthewSchenker | Jan 15, 2007 10:14pm | #17

   Festool4,
   Funny!Yes, I think your name makes your position pretty clear! Why did you choose Festool4 instead of Festool1 or ...2 or ...3?

9. 
   Festool4 | Jan 15, 2007 11:52pm | #18

   My father is the III, I'm the IV...

   Festool4

10. 
    woodman2263 | Jan 09, 2008 04:11pm | #20

    Paddy,

    Yes I am a Festool owner, but I agree with you I am not spending $400 on a shop vac!  My question comes from a statement you made.  You said that you have hoses for your sanders that come off you main lines overhead.  I think that is a great idea as I also have overhead pipes that run to my dust collector.  How do you tap into the main line overhead for the small hoses?  Do they have blast gates?  My overhead lines are 5" metal.  I would love to tap into them with the small hoses.  Can you give me some guidance?

    Thanks,

    Jeff

11. 
    PADDYDAHAT | Jan 10, 2008 06:29am | #21

    Jeff, wow a year old post, your existing metal 5" needs either a 5x5x4" wye* cut into the line or a saddle fitting for a 4" tap. A saddle fitting* is almost a half slice of the 5" that can be scabbed  on to the side of the 5" that has a 4" wye branch on it that you secure with silicone and pop rivets.

    I use a 4x 2 1/2 plastic reducer and a plug for non use. and have 2 1/2 "  reducer for using a PC long dust hose** from a drywall sander that I can use directly over the bench or I can use 2 1/2 " hose and get further away before I reduce to machine size. It can be a creative chore to fabricate reducers for a bunch of different brand power tools but doable and very satisfying. Hook a few slings of short bungees in the overhead to keep the slack up in the air over the benches or work area. All the best, Paddy.

     

    * The saddle fitting needs an elliptical hole cut under it to pull suction on the 4" leg, be sure not to leave a lip of the hole in the 5" sticking out into the air flow of the 4" on the up stream side.  The fittings, the wye and the saddle may be found at http://WWW.airhand.com. Ask them for a catalog. Great stuff, not home dopey, not super high, but not cheap .

    ** amazon, as an accessory for a PC dry wall sander approx. $25. Ya have to shop it.

2. 
   jackplane | Jan 08, 2007 07:59am | #5

   my friend's got one that uses a Festool skilsaw with a vacuum attachment- he built it himself using a kit with their guiderails. works well.

    

1. 
   gen10 | Jan 09, 2007 07:36pm | #6

   many thanks for the info, any chance of further details on this plans or more ideas?

    

   Thanks

    

1. 
   jackplane | Jan 09, 2007 07:47pm | #7

   i'm sure you can google festool for more.Expert since 10 am.

3. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jan 16, 2007 03:28am | #19

   ALAN, my sincere apologies for pi$$ing all over your request(who knew?). I hope you got enough info to go forward.

   To all the other folks thanks for the great info/support, I will pick up the Rockler plans to understand the hardware requirements and then look at the 80-20 acqusitions as well as the wood needed.

   To Mr. Schenker, If you had read a few other lines of my post-like the first line- I said that I had used the tools owned by my friends and while expensive were very well engineered. In defference to those friends -and others- who use the tools I will cease and desist using the terms rabid and fool least they be tarred with the same brush as they are fine folks. It was also an unkind thing to say rant or not and had my daughters seen it they would have very softly  said to me "Dad, how do you REALLY feel about that?" . That was their method of sensitivity trainning for the old man that reduced my rants by 95%. It's an issue that I strongly suggest that you look into. Best of luck, Paddy